RANGER AGAINST WAR: Operation Red Wings Failure <

Sunday, May 25, 2008

Operation Red Wings Failure

Marti was a fightin' man
Whose story should be told

He was a son of circumstance

He couldn't quite control

--Marti's Last Stand
,

Enter the Haggis
____________

The soon to be published book Sawtelo Sar: The Untold Story of Operation Red Wings and Whalers, by Ed Darack, will discuss the "disinformation and missed-information" surrounding Red Wings, the operation for which Michael P. Murphy received his Medal of Honor (Michael P. Murphy MOH).

While we are glad Mr. Darack has written his book, why is there
disinformation attached to any U.S. combat operation in the glorious War on Terror? Of his statement I have no doubt, but why does it devolve to an embedded independent stock photographer and adventure writer who was never in the military to expose these facts?

Included on the website promoting the book is a picture of Jason Kamiya, Commanding General of CJTF-76, so this operation was a Task Force, which generally translates as a combination of forces arrayed under a single commander to fulfill a specific mission. T.F.'s are usually of a short duration and are not habitual unit relationships.


As a small aside, the General is wearing an Expert Infantry Badge, so the task force was commanded by a MG without a Combat Infantry Badge.


"The objective of [Operation Red Wings] was to 'disrupt anti-coalition militia operations that could potentially affect the upcoming national elections,' Translation: the Marines along with local Afghan forces would interdict those responsible for the creation and employment of IEDs (improvised explosive devices, commonly referred to as 'roadside bombs'), mortar and rocket attacks, and ambushes that destabilized the remote Kunar Province."

To the best of my memory, T.F.'s are usually Battalion-sized efforts with attachments, i.e, artillery, aviation, armor or whatever is required to fulfill the mission. Therefore, a Battalion Commander should be the T.F. commander, and T.F.'s are usually named for the T.F. Commander.

One of the difficulties that should have been anticipated before the operation kicked off was that this was a CJTF, with inherent problems built-in. As example, the Iranian hostage fiasco during Desert One demonstrates the services still have problems working J-level operations. Bay of Pigs, Son Tay Raid, Grenada offer other examples.


Operations are difficult enough at the service level, and adding outside resources does not make things go more smoothly. When will the U.S. services learn this lesson?


The target for Murphy's SEAL team was a militia led by Ahmed Shah which was
neither Taliban or al-Qaeda, though it probably had financial links to both. It was one of "approximately 22" distinct oppositional units operating in the region. Murphy's unit was ratted out by a goat herder.

Once again, U.S. military members are being used to suppress and/or kill non-Taliban, non-al-Qaeda personnel;
how does this constitute a part of the War on Terror? Surely Ahmed Shah is a rough customer, but so what? How does this impact the welfare of the U.S.?

When there are 22 distinct anti-coalition militias (ACM) in the area, one must question the validity of elections in such a region. This indicates a civil war, which has nothing to do with the security of America. To throw American troops into the fray is like putting them in a bumper car in which they will be buffeted by any number of known and unknown hostiles. The cars may be different colors, but they all look alike.


The actions of these militias can not even be justified as terrorism as it is a classic guerrilla / unconventional warfare scenario.
Why does the U.S. military kill people and conduct combat operations to prop up phony puppet governments that do not reflect the will of the people?

It is doubtful that Afghanistan will ever have a representative government even if the U.S. military were to kill every goat , chicken, dog and goat herder in the area.
Some things are beyond the purview of combat power. Afghanistan was a failed state when the U.S. invaded; the production of choreographed elections does not alter that reality. Kabul will never be an Athenian democracy.

Battalion 2/3 decided to name its operations after hockey teams. Why do we believe that sports analogize to combat operations? The Phony War on Terror (PWOT ©) is not a sporting event, and there will be no winners, though there are cheerleaders, but they never were in harm's way.


The fact that Shah was shot and chased out of the region in a subsequent operation (Whalers) is as meaningless as warm spit. He is simply regrouping in another location for another day, and his units will return as soon as the Marines pack their rucks and split the scene.


Shah and his inheritors will still be there when the Marines are old and telling their war stories in a VFW post.

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46 Comments:

Blogger The Minstrel Boy said...

this has been the age old problem of afghanistan. it has barely been a region, and never anything remotely considered a nation. everyone from the persians under darius, to alexander, to the mongols, to the brits, to the brits again, to the russians, to us, has figured out why they have called this "the graveyard of empires." the persians tried to subdue afghanistan because they wanted to trade with india, alexander wanted a secure supply line so he could invade india, the mongols wanted to get their silks and spices to market without having to fight through the straights between the malay peninsula and indonesia, the brits wanted some breathing room for the hindu kush, then they just wanted some fucking room, the russians wanted the afghans to quit infecting the 'stans with religious whackery, i still don't know what the fuck we're doing there, but i predicted these results the whole way. i wish sincerely that i had been wrong.

a friend of mine who is there right now reports that in the six years there has been an american presence in his opzone, his command is the first one where the staff has made any effort at all to learn the local dialect. i sent him a rosetta stone package a couple months ago. (i would name the dialect but it would give too many clues as to his location). six years before any americans bother with trying to learn the local language.

that's fucking shameful, and one of the reasons we're doomed.

Sunday, May 25, 2008 at 3:14:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous mike said...

" ... still be there when the Marines are old drunks telling their war stories in a VFW barroom."

Sh!tty way to make a point Ranger. Especially on Memorial Day weekend when VFW members nationwide are placing flags on veteran's gravestones and participating in remembrance ceremonies at tens of thousands of smaall town cemeteries. Meanwhile the rest of America is sucking down suds at picnics, home barbecues, ballfields, and the Indy 500.

The vast majority of VFW posts do not have bars and do not sell liquor. The few that do are the large posts near military bases that have a huge active duty membership. Your analogy would perhaps have been apt thirty years ago but not in today's world.

Sunday, May 25, 2008 at 8:55:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

MB,

It is a crying shame that we sent troops in with no language training; that is sheer hubris and militarily foolhardy. The old SF rule was one linguist per team, at a minimum. And, learning the language still doesn't obviate the illegality of our presence.

A free and democratic Afghanistan is no guarantee that the U.S. will be free from future terrorist attacks. Indeed, Afghanistan was also the graveyard of the Soviet empire. We can only hope. . .
as hope seems to be the operative word in today's military vernacular.

Sunday, May 25, 2008 at 9:25:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

mike,

We may be celebrating Memorial Day, but as a VN veteran, 58,000 of our fellows died fighting against communism and today communists finance and bankroll our lifestyle. My underwear was made in VN, so what's to celebrate--58,000 men are still dead and I've got SE Asia skivvies. Lucky me, my nuts feel really good in them. I'm not a cheery SOB, and I won't drink at a VFW bar, either figuratively or literally.

Both Lisa and I have witnessed drunks at our small local VFW posts while there for MOPH meetings. They chose the site b/c of the open bar.

If we avoid the deaths, we don't have to lay wreaths. All of us veterans must remember the dead, but I do not want this to be taken as support for these wars, as it always is.

The mission of all the fraternal organizations should be to ensure that they become supperannuated.

There is courage and valor in these wars, but there is no heroism, because nothing we are doing is heroic. If anything is heroic, it is balanced by the baseness of our policies.

Sunday, May 25, 2008 at 9:40:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger The Minstrel Boy said...

funny, as i peruse the blogs of those who were actually in places with the fighting and dying all around them, i see very little of what the flag lapel pin soldiers would call "patriotism." i see respectful memory, saddened reflection, grim assesment of lies and hypocrisy and things like that.

those of us who followed the flag into the storms very rarely seem to be all that into the parades and sham displays. having seen what the real thing looks like it all strikes me as stupid. it's like seeing an honest to god elephant on the plains of kenya will spoil the hell out of your next trip to the zoo.

when i was asked to apply for my training i was told that my marksmanship was impressive, my IQ scores were attractive (at that time the teams had a higher requirement for basic intelligence than the academy), but the fact that i spoke three languages fluently was the pearl of great price to them. they told me that they figured they could beat the physical reqs into me, and lord they did just that.

as i listen to the voices of the old soldiers i hear resignation, respect, and lots of sadness.

thank you for your service ranger. we all miss our friends. i don't drink anymore, but my glass of ice tea will be raised to you, and your friends.

we were just a bunch of people,
doing the best we could.

and you know, i think we did it,
pretty up and walking good.


john stewart "mother country"

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 11:37:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

What aways sickens me is that the political choices are always made by well-groomed men in quiet rooms and the bloody results are always inflicted upon the smallholders and workman's sons in stony fields or thatched villages far away.

Those whose foolish, or worse, criminal misjudgement leads to sorrow, pain and death usually die peacefully abed.

While those who survive their folly or malediction spend today mourning their lost strength and d the friends of their youth.

Thucydides would have recognized it; the world and time have not changed so much.

So on this, to me the saddest of days:

"Dry late summer's grass
Is all that remains of the
Dreams of the warriors."

Monday, May 26, 2008 at 2:39:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Chief and MB, i roger your transmissions. best to both of you . jim

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 9:21:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

mike, i could've been more sensitive and am not picking on USMC personnel, my cmt is across the board. But i stand behind my cmt. b/c it clarifies my point.The courage and dedication of all military personnel is a given but it's being wasted. jim

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 at 9:24:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous mike said...

Ranger: I know that your post was not an interservice rivalry thing - so my apologies if my comment sounded like I took that line. My snivel was your original characterization of the VFW as a bunch of old drunks telling war stories. Thanks for editing that. The only bickering between services I have heard at my local VFW post is bragging rights about how bad the SOS was compared to the gourmet meals the other guys had.

The 1000+ flags that we placed on veteran's graves for Memorial Day were collected today for use next year (even though the local general store only charged us cost and shipping for 12 gross they still cost close to a buck each).

They went on the graves of vets of all the services including the Coasties. We had vets from the Civil War, Spanish-American war, WW1, WW2, Korea, and Vietnam. We had one from the Indian wars, and a hell of a lot of Indian vets from WW2, Korea and Nam. Had some Nisei vets also, MB. Thankfully we do not yet have any graves from OIF and OEF - although we do have some youngsters who served there.

The WW1 guys were more than half of the total. In the past I thought that was due to longevity and modern medicine. But now I think it has more to do with population trends in small town America. We had a huge fishing and logging industry back in 1900 that was dying out and/or being automated even in the 1940s. Most of those WW1 vets were US Army Infantry. A few were Wagoners and Ambulance men. But there were also quite a few from the not-so-well-known Spruce Division, a band of loggers mobilized to provide one of the key raw materials needed to build bi-planes for the Army Air Corps and for the Allies. Most of these guys never left Washington or Oregon during the war, but they wore the uniform, and they worked brutal hours below scale for the war effort.

I am amazed by those headstones every Memorial Day. Some do not have any marker identifying them as vets. Our post commander is working with several families to help them get through the redtape to get their fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfarhers VA headstones.

If I am glamorizing war it is not my intent. We had no politicians at our wreath laying ceremony Monday. The speaker was a young Coast Guard Lieutenant (0-3 to you Army guys). He read the Preamble and then spoke low-key for just a few minutes on the theme that none of those buried vets and no serving military owe allegiance to any political party. Well said I thought.

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 12:13:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Mike, pls note the edit has been posted and now i will no longer fear for my life around old Marines.
Thanks for sharing your experiences as they are what fraternity means. jim

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 10:05:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Mike,

Thank you for your last post. It is very interesting, and what you and your fellows did is the essence of being a good citizen, I think.

How appropriate that the young LT. spoke of no political allegiances. Bravo to him, and to you.

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 at 11:23:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous fnord said...

ranger: The norwegian presence has 1/10 approx of norwegian-pakistanis and Norwegian-afghans. Its not a bad trick to actively recruit minority soldiers.

as an aside, "When there are 22 distinct anti-coalition militias (ACM) in the area, one must question the validity of elections in such a region. " more or less fixes the whole problem of "democratic afghanistan". Add that each of these 22 groups are intertwined through clan, affiliation, intermarriage etc. and youre starting to see the contours of the level of complexity that is Afghanistan. Its mindboggling.

Friday, May 30, 2008 at 9:54:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

fnord,
when nation building it's nice to start at zero rather than in negative figures.Even starting at zero is a fools venture.i'll say it loud and clear- why is a democratic Afghanistan or Iraq essential to the long term interests of America.? It just doesn't compute.
No soldier should be required to fight and or die for a fantasy.
Glad your still onboard. jim

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 9:54:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Rick98c said...

Virtually meaningless, but I still have to say that I've only been to one VFW without a bar and was dumfounded by the lack of it. This is in MN and WI far from all major active duty bases.

Saturday, May 31, 2008 at 10:53:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Rick, i regret making the reference to VFW bars, it took the idea down a side road and became personal to some readers , and rightly so. i have corrected my headspace and timing.
The key point is that these far flung battles against dubious foes DOES NOT ADDRESS THE SECURITY ISSUES OF AMERICA.IF THIS IS A WAR ON TERROR THEN LETS FIGHT AND KILL TERROR THREATS TO AMERICA. jim

Sunday, June 1, 2008 at 9:33:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Sgt Perna USMC said...

Operation Whalers was not led by an Army General. It was planned and executed by 2D BN 3D MAR. NAVSOF personnel were under the direct command of TF KOA and Operation Redwings was also planned and executed by 2D BN 3D MAR. The subsequent battles during Operation Whalers were a victory. There were even female candidates running for public office, whom under the militia's control were to wear full Burkha's and show nothing above the ankle. Ahmad Shah returned from Pakistan after medical treatment and never regained power in his militia. To say the victory was nothing more than warm spit, while not having the balls to post your own name, is a farce.

I suppose you are afraid of losing your precious pension? That is of course, if you really are retired special forces. If you truly believed the liberal rhetoric you are spouting on this website, the pension, and your anonymity, would not be a concern. Good day, coward.

Monday, July 21, 2008 at 8:01:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Sgt perna, always nice to hear from my USMC loyal readers. I do have the balls to list my name on my home page but since there are no pictures you probably find it hard to follow.
I do not have a pension . I draw CRSC and VA service connected disability for my service.And why would i fear losing my pension as you say- isn't freedom of speech one of the things you are fighting for-?Or are you fighting only for the freedoms of burka babes?
Come back to me in 5 or 10 years and tell me who won your little shooting match.
You have a lot of balls hiding behind an anonymous address.This must be a marine definition of courage. jim

Tuesday, July 22, 2008 at 7:23:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I personally served as a Marine Infantry squad leader in both operations, Red Wings and Whalers. I was in Echo Co. 2nd BN 3rd MAR 3rd platoon. I, as well as many other marines, experienced many local people in the Kunar(Konar) Province ask for help to fight off the Extremists(Taliban, Al Qaeda, ACM) in the area. The local people were being forced into a life style they wanted nothing to do with. These militias and terrorist groups did support and claim to be a part of the TALIBAN and AL QAEDA. It is a damn shame that there are those who sit at home and bash on those who did a job many could not do.
Operation Red Wings was not a failure because we were able to thwart away almost every threat to the local populace during the time of the elections.
I can remember standing security around the Watapor Afghan National Police compound on the day of the elections in 2005. If setting up a government, that allowed for a better Afghanistan run by the people, was not what the people of Afghanistan wanted, then why is it that when we were getting rocketed and mortared at the compound that there were still locals standing in the open area waiting in line to vote? There were rockets, mortars, small and heavy-machine gun fire that would have made anyone "go home" and not want to be there, especially if they didn't believe in a better Afghanistan or their right to vote for the better of themselves and their children. So you see, maybe you should interview a few Marines and Navy Corpsman who actually took part in those operations so that you can get the "bigger picture." We are there for the people of Afghanistan as well as we are there to thwart the possibility of another attack like that which happened on 9/11/01 from happening again. The people want us there, we need to be there, and our Intelligence Agencies have traced the beginning of the plans for 9/11 to the area where these operations had taken place.

USMC Infantry Sergeant and Squad Leader.

Thursday, February 18, 2010 at 3:19:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Marine Sqd Ldr,18 feb,
Welcome to RAW.
I reckon we have a failure to communicate.I assume that you've read my essays and long term philosophy.In these i posit that an election does not a nation make.
WHEN US MARINES NEED TO POST SENTRIES TO GUARD A AFGH POLICE STATION THEN THINGS ARE SERIOUSLY FUCKED.
If you buy the bullshit that AFGH is about preventing another 911 then there's not much that i can say to dissuade you, nor do i want to do so. When you are doing what you do it's essential that you buy the propaganda or you'd go crazy.
I personally or professionally don't get all warm and fuzzy about the Afghans and their problems since we have more than enuf of our own here in the Fatherland.I say this in case you don't get around my neigborhood very much, in fact would you have a job if you weren't a Marine?
My concern is for the welfare of the US of A and let Afghans do the same for their country.
If in the year 2010 they are still not a democratic nation , it's not our concern.
Best of luck and good wishes for your safety.
jim

Thursday, February 18, 2010 at 9:30:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you for the welcome to RAW! :)
I haven't read ALL your essays and long-term philosophy, however, I am reading into who you are, who you were, and the experiences you went through in your career as an Army Ranger Airborne Special Force Soldier.
You say you posit that elections don't make a nation. In response to that statement I have a question...what makes a nation?
You also state that, "WHEN US MARINES NEED TO POST SENTRIES TO GUARD A AFGH POLICE STATION THEN THINGS ARE SERIOUSLY FUCKED."
Just want to say thank you for proving one point of mine. There is a serious lack of knowledge, and anti-guerilla warefare training tactics, their nation's police, armies, and special force units have; as is shown in the overwhelming advantages the Taliban, Al Qaeda, and ACM have over the ANP(Afghan National Police), ANA(Afghan National Army), and ASF(Afghan Special Force) units. Hence, the need for Marine infantry platoons to guard the areas and provide security during the elections.
We weren't posted as "sentries" but briefed to provide 360 degree security for the compound as well as setup vehicle and entry control points to ensure the protection of those who wanted to vote. We did not go knocking door to door to make people vote. Those who showed up wanted to vote. Men and women alike stood in line to vote, even while being fired at by Islamic extremists. The police compound was consistently receiving increasing harassment fires, from the Taliban and ACM, as the days 'til the elections decreased. The ANP requested the protection and help of the Marines to safeguard them from the ACM due to their lack of ability to do it on their own.
While providing security for the compound, we were invited inside the compound for tea and bread; with the use of an interpreter we held some amazing dialogue. They have expressed before, and they continued to express the need for better training and support from the U.S. so that one day they could do this on their own. From that dialogue, our command put together a series of weapons and marksmanship training programs that took place on the secure area of our base, Camp Blessing(in the Nagalam district),as well as taking them on patrols with us to show them the proper tactics, techniques, and procedures of running an effective patrol. They asked for our help and we gave it to them.
The province of Kunar(AKA Konar), where the Watapor ANP compound is located, is in Southeast Afghanistan along the border of Pakistan. The Watapor ANP compound is where some of the 2005 elections were held. The Marines, and supporting contractors, built a building to support future elections.
I think you are taking what I said out of context. We are in Afghanistan to help the Afghan people and to ensure the safety and security of the people from those extremists who force the Afghan people to live in fear of them. And if you think that we are NOT over there to further prevent another attack on US soil, then I think you are naive. The Taliban, who funds and recruits from the militias, claimed responsibilty for the 9/11 attacks on U.S. soil.
Did you have family who fell with the WTC towers? Probably not, because if you did, you might feel a little different if you saw someone was claiming responsibility for the death of your family member, and many others, with pride.
contiued on next post...

Thursday, February 18, 2010 at 7:32:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

continuation of previous post from anonymous...
I'm not "buying the propaganda" I am embracing the facts....Facts I have acquired through actual experiences and events in my deployment to Afghanistan and through the experiences of my fellow comrades.
"I personally or professionally don't get all warm and fuzzy about the Afghans and their problems since we have more than enuf of our own here in the Fatherland." Ranger said.
That's just a little too "it's all about me!" if you ask me. If we believe in Freedom, then we should spread the word loudly. If others believe in Freedom, and are in need of help, we should answer loudly back.
Another question for you...How did you feel on the day the WTC towers fell? Do you think we should sit and do nothing, since "we have more than enuf of our own here in the Fatherland"? Or should we stand up for what we believe in? Should we not help those in need who believe in Freedom as well?
And just a little about me, since you think that I am still on active duty status, I was honorably discharged 3 years ago in 2007. Since then, I have obtained an Associates degree and have acquired jobs in 3 different trades. My wife and I just got our Independent Business Owners license and have started a business networking with some very successful business people.
So when you say, "in fact would you have a job if you weren't a Marine?"...it just goes to show that you assume things to be the truth without knowing the facts.
Before I stop typing, I just want to copy and paste a part of an article you wrote: you state, "What does the average Afghani and Iraqi hope for and desire? Probably the same thing the Reagan era Communists and Sandinistas wanted, and the Vietcong and North Vietnamese in the 1st and 2nd Indochina Wars: respect, warm homes, water, decent food, freedom of religion and freedom from foreign domination. Their fears are real, and we are what they fear."
At first you say they want, "probably....respect, warm homes, water, decent food, freedom of religion, and freedom from foreign dominations," showing that you are not sure what they want(because you have never asked them yourself). And then you go on as far as saying that they fear us. Did they tell you that? See where I am going with this. You seem to be "buying into the propaganda" not me.
God Bless
Best of luck and good wishes for your safety as well,
Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad Leader

Thursday, February 18, 2010 at 7:34:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Sqd ldr.
Don't you ever stop to wonder why we give hundreds of billions to fight a war in distant lands, and then a few of them give you a few crumbles of bread and some weak ass tea and this makes you all warm and bubbly.Of course they love your ass b/c you and the might of America is making them top dog in a dog shit country.
In addition do you ever wonder why you must train them ,BUT, the Taliban seem to generate their own tactics and operations? Have we just taken over the birth defected, brain damaged portion of the population?
Pls provide the link of the Taliban being responsible for 911.
We really need not discuss much more b/c we are talking past one another. I do not accept the Cheney/Bush/Palinesque fantasy view of reality.
jim

Friday, February 19, 2010 at 10:59:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Who said "they" believe in freedom? We're sure taking a lot of flak from the freedom lovers.

John Quincy Adams I believe correctly said:

"Wherever the standard of freedom and independence
has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America’s] heart,
her benedictions and her prayers be.

"But she goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.
She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all.
She is the champion and vindicator only of her own."

Ya can't change anyone. They have to change on their own.

Friday, February 19, 2010 at 6:09:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Mr. James(AKA Jim) Hruska,
I don't have to stop and wonder why we are spending billions of dollars on this 'just' war. There is no amount of money, nor a price-tag, that you can put on the innocent lives lost from the 9/11 attacks on U.S. soil. I believe that if I lost my life, during my deployment to Afghanistan, it would have been for a 'just cause'. I know you believe differently and you are entitled to your opinion(unlike the Afghanis who suffer from beliefs being forced upon them by Taliban). If tea and bread were all I was provided to eat, it would not change my beliefs about the war in Afghanistan, neither would it change my views of the Afghani people.
Afghanistan may be a 'dog shit country', but that just goes to show that we should feel lucky to have what we do. They don't have hardly any of the things we do and they still get by with a smile on their face. However, those smiles used to be faces of fear pleading for help. The Taliban have implemented a strict interpretation of Sharia Law that is punishable by death, and many other things, if it is not followed. Here is a list of the things the Taliban say 'real muslims' should give up in order to be called Muslim:
pork, pig, pig oil, anything made from human hair, satellite dishes, cinematography, and equipment that produces the joy of music, pool tables, chess, masks, alcohol, tapes, computers, VCRs, television, anything that propagates sex and is full of music, wine, lobster, nail polish, firecrackers, statues, sewing catalogs, pictures, Christmas cards, and a few others.
Possession was forbidden of depictions of living things, whether drawings, paintings or photographs, stuffed animals, and dolls.
How would you feel if an extremist Christian, Mormon, or Catholic group said you were not to have any of the above things mentioned? You might say that you would stand up for what you believe in, and then at that point you would be made an example of and most likely be beheaded in front of your friends and family.
Your wife can speak her beliefs, opinions, and quote past presidents all day and it would only go to show that the women of America have rights and freedoms. However, if she were to live as a woman in Afghanistan, Sharia Law would force her to wear a burqa in public, because, according to a Taliban spokesman, "the face of a woman is a source of corruption" for men not related to them. Afghani women were not allowed to work, they were not allowed to be educated after the age of eight, and until then were permitted only to study the Koran. Women seeking an education were forced to attend underground schools such as the Golden Needle Sewing School, where they and their teachers risked execution if caught. They were not allowed to be treated by male doctors unless accompanied by a male chaperone, which led to illnesses remaining untreated. They faced public flogging and execution for violations of the Taliban's laws. Also, domination of women was an affirmation of manhood so be thankful, Lisa.

continued on next post...

Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 12:28:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

...continuation of previous post from anonymous...
The 9/11 Commission Report, formally named Final Report of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, is the official report of the events leading up to the September 11, 2001 attacks. It was prepared by the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (informally sometimes known as the "9/11 Commission" or the "Kean/Hamilton Commission") at the request of the President and Congress.
The Commission interviewed over 1,200 people in 10 countries and reviewed over two and a half million pages of documents, including some closely-guarded classified national security documents. The Commission also relied heavily on the FBI's PENTTBOM investigation.
The Commission concluded that 15 of the 19 hijackers who carried out the attacks were from Saudi Arabia, but found no evidence the government of Saudi Arabia conspired in the attacks, or that it funded the attackers. Mohammed Atta, the leader of the attacks, was from Egypt. 2 hijackers were from the United Arab Emirates, and 1 was from Lebanon. According to the Commission, all 19 hijackers were members of the al-Qaeda terrorist organization, led by Osama bin Laden.
After initial denial, in 2004 Osama bin Laden claimed responsibility for the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States.
Here's a translation of what Bin Laden said in a statement to the U.S.:
"Allah knows it did not cross our minds to attack the towers but after the situation became unbearable and we witnessed the injustice and tyranny of the American-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I thought about it. And the events that affected me directly were that of 1982 and the events that followed -- when America allowed the Israelis to invade Lebanon, helped by the U.S. Sixth Fleet. As I watched the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me punish the unjust the same way and to destroy towers in America so it could taste some of what we are tasting. "
Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network was able to expand under the safe sanctuary extended by Taliban.
The Taliban continued to provide security for the Al-Qaeda network that was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. So you see, even though members of the Taliban were not directly responsible for the attacks, they are accessories to murder of thousands of Americans. You know, as well as I do, that there is proof of the Taliban harboring the Al-Qaeda, and they should be treated the same way as those directly responsible for the deaths of our people.

Keep it comin,
Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad Leader

Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 12:29:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Ranger,
What units were you with during your career as an Army Ranger?
When were you in Vietnam and in what areas?

Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad leader

Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 12:43:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

USMC Sqd Leader,

I know you mean the best, but as an American woman I already face domination, dismissal, disregard, abuse, lower wages than men, being treated as a FB or a FWB (for life, if I allow it) ...

Having acid thrown in our faces is not the norm, and yet it does happen. Domestic violence is a rampant scourge, and this can be both physical and mental. The mental can be worse, as the wounds are unseen and more persistent.

Women only earned the right to vote in 1919 in the U.S. (1945 in France, I believe), and all I mean to say is, like Yoko Ono said, "Woman is the nigger of the world." As long as we have the Madonna-whore split, our place in society is unstable.

There are very few places where woman have parity with men. The roots for this are very deep and broad-spreading. I will write something on it soon.

Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 11:28:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lisa,

Hope to hear about the 'roots' soon.

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Sunday, February 21, 2010 at 11:55:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

USMC SGT,

Thanks -- it;ll be a fast-and-loose treatment, but I'll give it a go.

Semper Fi

Monday, February 22, 2010 at 4:14:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lisa,

Been waiting for a little while now to hear about your 'roots.' You still working on it? or is it hard to put it fast and loose? :)

Hope to hear from you soon.

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Monday, March 1, 2010 at 6:29:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Sqd. Ldr.,

Thank you for thinking of me :)

Okay -- now I've gotta put it out there. Thanks for holding me to it! Fast-n-loose it is ...

Monday, March 1, 2010 at 6:47:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

:)

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Monday, March 1, 2010 at 9:20:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

USMC,
I hope thatyou saw my cmt 35 at milpub concerning our SAW thread.
jim

Tuesday, March 2, 2010 at 11:28:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim,

Yes, I saw it and commented back.

Thanks,

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Wednesday, March 3, 2010 at 11:28:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lisa,

Roots! :) Please

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Sunday, March 7, 2010 at 3:55:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

USMC Sgt.,

You wouldn't be trying to get me in the kill zone, would you? :)

O.k. -- today.

L.

Sunday, March 7, 2010 at 9:42:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Lisa,
Beware of Marines bearing smiles.
Put out your flankers and push your point out farther.
jim

Sunday, March 7, 2010 at 11:44:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lisa,

I am only wanting discussion. Which I believe is the purpose of all of Jim's blogs. I have posted some other comments on other posts that no one wants to respond to, not sure why.

Just want comm.

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Monday, March 8, 2010 at 1:45:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

USMC Sgt.,

I tease you. Yes, dialog IS the purpose, and it would be boring if everyone were "yes men".

You may not get comments yet because I notice it take a while of sustained presence on a blog b/f the community notices. Hang in there while you feel like a cipher. People are assessing during this period. That's just how it seems to go.

Monday, March 8, 2010 at 5:05:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ok, understand.

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Monday, March 8, 2010 at 5:51:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

SL,
I'd like to add my observation.
I'd suggest that people don't respond for the same reason that i don't.
You seem self evidently happy with your squad level view of the world, and there's not much to be said that will change your beliefs.
Ergo no cmts.
jim

Tuesday, March 9, 2010 at 9:31:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim,

So, basically, due to my views/beliefs I scribe in these blogs are not acceptable? Am I not allow to participate in the blogging? Unless i have offended you, I am not sure as to why DISCUSSION is not allowed on this blog site.

Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 at 1:21:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

SL,
As i've said before-you are welcome on this site and can say anything you so desire,as long as you are polite and follow accepted decorum.
Now having said that -this does not OBLIGATE me to reply or comment.As i said before -this is my living room and i am in charge.You are a visitor and i don't hand out crums of bread and weak tea.I am not tasked to reply, but do so at my leisure and compulsion.
You are rigid and not inclined to modify your position , and this is not my concern.
If you want otherwise , then i suggest you start your own blog.I'm sure there's a world of folks out there willing to live in your world.
jim

Wednesday, March 10, 2010 at 11:34:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

USMC Sqd Ldr,

I hope you stay on, as I think it's good to integrate many points of view.

Thursday, March 11, 2010 at 7:27:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Red Wings failed and thats why Operation Whalers evolved. The Marines were kicking ass starting August 14 2005 through the next 6 days with minimal sleep or chow. Mr. muslim Amahd and his men definitley felt the reprocussions of killing those seals and downing that helo. Yes they may regroup but they always will. The only way to destroy terrorism is to kill every muslim on the planet. They are the biggest problem of the world. They want their world congquest. Extremist or not, they all read the same book and their religion is not a peaceful one my friend. They have already taken over france (in population)and are close to over-running great britian. The U.S. needs to wake up. They will never be our friends. We are the infedel. One thing I ask is do not bash the Marines that were doing their job during that time. I speak because I was there on that mountain during those days through it all and I tell you first hand, we delivered a serious ass kicking! "All gave some, some gave all."

Thursday, November 4, 2010 at 11:31:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Anon,nov4,

I agree that we will never be friends, nor will the Islamists ever embrace democracy. Especially when our missionaries are carrying machine guns.

Nation building is not a viable option. When you so ably served we were still in the punitive stage and we actually believed that we were killing AQ operatives.
Even if we were , and even if we killed them all, it wouldn't add up to a hill of beans.

I would never criticize the USMC tactical level military prowess.
You guys are fine infantry, and if not for you , then we Army infy types would have to do the scut work.

It's my belief that fine Marines and Soldiers should not be wasted fighting to build other phony ass nations, that will never love us.
Nor should we love them.

In the final analysis-they're still there and you're long gone.
FYI, i have a friend whose son died needlessly on that hill. He was the 1st Ranger killed in that mess.

Also, you need not tell me about the level of your efforts and the great sacrifices that you made. I know what you do and admire your abilities, i just grieve that we lose men like you for no observable gain.

jim

Friday, November 5, 2010 at 10:01:00 AM GMT-5  

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