Straw-Grasping
What we couldn't do, what we wouldn't do,
It's a crime, but does it matter?
Does it matter much, does it matter much to you?
--Living on a Thin Line, The Kinks
They'll stone you and then say they're all brave
They'll stone you when you're sent down in your grave
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned
--Everybody Must Get Stoned, Bob Dylan
_____________
Salim Ahmed Hamdan, one of Osama bin Laden's seven chauffeurs, is the subject of the first American war crimes trial since World War II, and like Jose Padilla, he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. The decks are stacked; the judge has already barred evidence obtained by interrogaters following his capture in 2002.
The title of a USA Today article calls Hamdan "bin Laden's aide," promoting him up the chain of command in the public's eye. Do George Bush's drivers qualify as aides? Were the drivers of Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo, the Emperor, Goering, Himmler, Goebbels, et. al., tried at Nuremburg? No.
Are we so desperate in our Phony War on Terror (PWOT ©) that drivers are now high-value targets or prisoners? America has become trapped within the confines of our faulty rhetoric and turned the world into a real-life video game that is the PWOT. Why, the PWOT outsells its nearest competitor -- Grand Theft Auto -- by hundreds of billions of dollars.
These Gitmo cases violate every tenet of American jurisprudence and the principles of the civilized world. After being denied habeas corpus and access to prosecution materials, having nine military members wearing WOT medals on their chests as judge, prosecutor, defense and jury is actually a joke. The world is laughing while alternately cringing.
These phony tribunals and phony wars are infinitely more detrimental to the integrity of the republic than any terrorist attack could ever hope to be. You could say the U.S. has functioned as [unwitting] accomplice to the goals of the 9-11 attackers, if you dared risk being called a heretic.
Hamdan's case features two distinct components, which should yield different results: 1) Actions prior to 9-11, and 2) Actions post 9-11.
If it can be proven that pre 9-11 Hamdan knew about or participated in criminal conspiracy in the 9-11 attack, then he is in fact a criminal and should be tried as such -- in a U.S. federal court.
Post 9-11 Hamdan was captured (not arrested) with 2 SA 7 SAM missiles in his vehicle. An SF Captain attested to this fact, but couldn't verify that Hamdan was the driver.
Assuming that Hamdan was the driver transporting these missiles that would be used against U.S. air assets, does this fact make him a terrorist? How about Enemy combatant?
In our lexicon, The U.S. CPT is a "warrior," while personnel captured opposing the U.S. invasion are deemed terrorists or war criminals. According to international law, everybody has the right and responsibility to defend their homeland. If U.S. soldiers are warriors, those fighting them are also warriors. If warriors, then POW's upon capture, not criminals.
Hamdan post 9-11 is not terrorist, he is UW/GW, a designation clearly covered by the Rules of War. Either way you cut it, a military tribunal is the wrong venue for driver Hamdan.
Going back to basics, a war crime violates the customs or laws of war. Both war crimes and crimes vs. humanity necessitate the actuality of a state of war. 9-11 was not an act of war, it was an act of terror, which is a legal concept. None of the charges against Hamdan fit the definition of war crimes.
If Hamdan was so bad, then why didn't loyal Special Forces troops just shoot his ass back in the wilds of Afghanistan? After all, it worked with Che.
Phony charges in a phony war turn America's legal system into a phony semblance of justice. The Hamdan's will come and go, but the erosion of America's legitimacy is indelible.
Unfortunately, the U.S. is on the short end of the morality stick here. Its invasion of Afghanistan because Saudi Arabians attacked the U.S. is not defensible, as Afghanistan's Taliban were not al-Qaeda, which was in fact the threat. Is America safer because we have destroyed our credibility in the civilized world?
U.S. actions fit the definition of war crimes much more clearly than do those of Hamdan.
Labels: argentine war crimes tribunals, bush war crimes, hamdan trial, phony war on terror, PWOT
posted by rangeragainstwar at 10:11 PM
32 Comments:
In essence, what these trials boil down to is that they can say somebody told us you did it but we don't have to tell you who told us! You talk about a kangaroo court! And we're supposed to be spreading democracy?
america had nothing to do with guevara's death, even though that bitch was basically daring the spooks to kill him. che was also responsible for secretly seeking a rapprochment with "the yanquis" - i.e. begging for mercy - a fact the castro regime has managed to delete from the Official Commie Mythistory (TM).
somebody else wacked him. my only regret is that we didn't get a deathmask of guevara like j. edgar hoover did with john dillinger.
as for hamdan, you don't get to chaffeur the world's most wanted terrorist around and then claim innocence when they catch you with missiles in your car in a war zone.
seriously dude, you discredit yourself in advocating this guy's exculpation. my dark and mocking master RARAW told me "lol up against the wall with him".
Arkhamite - Dude, you're right...America had nothing to do with Che's murder...but the CIA did. As I recall, the trigger-puller/CIA agent was a Cuban exile named Rodriquez...he later wrote a book about his career, appeared on 60 Minutes or some similar show... was very proud of killing Che (and cutting off his hands)..good friend of Ollie North. GSJ
P.S. That loud, whoosing sound you heard was Ranger's post going right over your head.
Somehow we turned into one of those "banana republics" we spent so much money propping up for all those years.
Ark, A SPECIAL FORCES OFFICER EXECUTED CHE.Pls provide your references that disprove my contention and i will gladly edit my post.History and actuality are two different realities. If you know more than i do then pls share it with the world.I'm sure your Special Forces experience and knowledge should enlighten all of us. jim
TW, a portion of this essay was edited out but let's use it as a reply to your cmt.
When the US provided AGM's to the Al Q operatives in the Russo/Afghan war then we called them Freedom Fighters. When Hamdan gets caught with the same class of air to groung missile he is now a terrorist and war criminal.When they killed Russsians with our missiles this was legitimate but doing the same to Americans is a war crime.WOW. jim
the burden of proof is on you, my friend. demanding negative evidence - i.e. "prove me wrong" - and using your military experience to bolster your case, you are using the same cynical tactic the gw bush administration used to force a war with iraq. isn't it ironic?
Anon,
The oral tradition of SF 8th Grp was that straws were drawn to see who would get to execute Che.Personally CIA types usually prefer SF do their killing for them.
I stand behind my contention that A SF type capped him.
Recently i saw a Che T shirt for sale that said- Che's dead - get over it.
Actually i'm happy when the voices allow some commenters to reply-thats why they miss the whooshing sounds. jim
Ark,
Wrong little buddy. you come into my blog and world and disparage my comments.the balls in your court- that is if you understand the concept of balls.
Anon has provided a referce as to the actual killer but this goes against the oral tradition of long term 8th Grp operators. The point that is important is that he was executed without a trial by US govt agents.The point of my article is focused on Hamdan. jim
i'll take your "voices" comment in good humor.
and i must add that you and anonymous are agreeing despite the fact that you espouse two totally different accounts of guevara's death.
another "oral tradition" among americans is that scientists invented AIDS to control the black population. and that the media are controlled by jews. and that the CIA invented crack cocaine.
perhaps the oral tradition is not a verifiable reference?
Ark,
Of course oral treadition is not historical But the entire WW2 project at FSU is based upon it,.
Ok, i revise my blog with the errata that a Cia puke killed Che.
Now that quiets the voices in my head. jim
RAW, while you're at it, go ahead and admit you worked for military intelligence (lol) after vietnam. aren't you proud of your service? or do you avoid mentioning it because they didn't give you more pretty medals for the elaborate display you have in your house?
oral tradition not historical?
lesse, that just ruled out the iliad, the oddessy, gilgamesh, the history of the native americans, and the entire bible.
my work here is done.
p.s. it's a standard troll dodge to focus on a minute little detail to the exclusion of the point of the post.
hamdan being on trial for his life, using the fruits of torture as evidence shows that the united states has been degraded as a nation and a dream to the point of handing the terrorists their desired victory.
they have made us quit acting like americans who are concerned with the rule of law, justice, and liberty.
game, set, match to mr. bin laden.
RE: Che
Anyone interested can google Felix Rodriquez ... seems Ranger's story and my recollection are part of the same tapestry of events.... GSJ
"You could say the U.S. has functioned as [unwitting] accomplice to the goals of the 9-11 attackers, if you dared risk being called a heretic."
I will gladly join you in taking that risk. Hooah, Ranger!!!
"The man who can face vilification and disgrace, who can stand up against the popular current, even against his friends and his country when he knows he is right, who can defy those in authority over him, who can take punishment and prison and remain steadfast—that is a man of courage."
—Alexander Berkman
Ranger...I'm not comparing you with an anarchist, I just thought this quote was appropriate to you.
I believe and know you had courage, have courage and will continue to have courage. I really enjoy your blog.
-D.C. Massey (The Mad Celt)
Former SSGT. Massey
309th MI, 111MIB, U.S. Army
"The Mad Celt's Liberty Blog"
(http://dracocelt2.blogspot.com/)
MB,
As i pointed out the FSU WW2 project is all oral history BUT enuf of that.As of today i'm thru answering Arkamite/raraw/keith ellington.This is my home and my blog- i've asked him to keep his cmts relevent and on topic but he is incapable of so doing.I'm done with him.Let his ignorance and disrespect speak for itself. My problem is that his childishness is causing Lisa untold stress and extra work- he thinks he's fucking with a Ranger (like a big boy)but he's only spoiling Lisa's equilibrium.What a shitheel .
Thanks for the flank security. jim
mad celt, thanks for the words of encouragement. jim
TW, yep were spreading democrecy but it's a mighty thin application. jim
I'd add that the value of whatever we're going to get from topping this guy (Hamdan) or locking him up until Osama signs the instrument of surrender on the deck of the U.S.S. Stennis is far less than we will lose from the image of a bunch of uniformed judges condemning a scruffy Third World goatherder/terrorist. It's like we scooped up some raggedy-ass little tagger and then gave him his very own spotlight turn on "The People's Court.
This isn't a crime. It's worse: it's a mistake.
Arkhamite and RARAW seem to have the mental problem of seeing the argument against the FORM of this problem as an argument against the FUNCTION of chasing down guys like this knucklehead Hamdan and his boss. There's no argument that these guys want to hit us and that they have hit us. The problem is that they're the geopolitical equipment of a bunch of guys driving around in a Subaru with a space heater in the back and sagebrush tied to the bumper pretending to be a T-62. They WANT us to do this stuff, they WANT us to expend tons of political prestige and carloads of cash chasing their sorry little raggedy asses. It makes them look big and it makes us poorer.
So, no, dummy, Ranger isn't "advocating this guy's exculpation". He's saying that the guy is either 1) a crook, so try him in court, or 2) an enemy, so throw him in Stalag 13 until the "war is over".
Jesus wept.
Chief,
Impeccably stated (esp. the raggedy tagger on people's Court bit.)
my point of contention with RAW's characterization is that hamdan is not EITHER a jailed criminal or a prisoner of war, he is both and more. he is a political time-bomb because he will become a martyr for islamo-retards whatever happens, and especially if he is ever released. in any other conflict in american history, a detained member of a private organized that intentionally killed thousands of american civilians on american soil would have been quietly dispatched, and he would not be a martyr because the public would never know. hamdan is getting better legal treatment than he would have at any other time in our history.
for all my "mental problems", they did teach me close reading in college. so i did not miss the point, i pointed out through my discussion of guevara's death that rangeragainstwar's strategy for attacking current american policy is to use his dictionary of jargon to spew forth an unending stream of invective, and we are then invited to prove him wrong. that is not logical argumentation, it is propaganda, and hopefully we know by now that private propagandists, from far-right radio pundits to radical islamist sermonizers, are enormously dangerous in the information age.
but hey, i guess feeling dangerous is what people like jim are all about. ooo, i'm scared.
Arkhamite - Yeah. You did miss the point. GSJ
Whats this, R.A.W., have you attracted trolls? R.a.r.a.w seems like some jealous shithead to be sure. Its a funny fact that very few rightwingers seem to be able to behave themselves with dignity, even McCain has fallen into the trap of jock argumentation lately, and he used to play quite heavily upon his image as loyal opposition and respectful disagreement.
Ra-ra(w), may I call you ra-ra sir? WHere are your ranger credentials, eh?
arkhamite: So do you still back the contention that we should just put him up against the wall and laugh out loud? That the abolishment of rule of law, both inside the US and internationally is a laughing easy matter. "Hey, dude, chill, its only fascism..."?
fnord,calling Mr. keith ellington/arkamite/raraw a troll would be a promotion for him.he is not welcome on this site but he does not possess the maturity or respect to go elsewhere and spew his .....
Our departed friend _Lurch - at Main & Central taught blog respect by saying that my blog is my living room and all who enter are guests and should act accordingly.Lurch's replys and cmts on ALL occasions reflected this philosophy.Both Lisa and I try to go with this guidance.
I hate to cut this short BUT I MUST GO AND POLISH ALL MY PRETTY MEDALS THAT ARE GETTING RUSTY AND TARNISHED.One of them is from the MI. service i performed in the 80's.so i like to keep it especially spiffy.
fnord- you are always welcome in our living room. jim
Great post as always Ranger! And great comments too by all who actually understood the premise of the post. Sorry to see the lowlife infiltration here though, I've heard Raid works well.
another victory for great justice. rangeragainstwar has to go fondle his decoration(s?) until he feels tough again.
after you finish, why don't you call in an artillery strike about .2 clicks southeast of Kleman Plaza, assface?
and stop sending me emails asking me to shave off all my pubic hair and take a picture of myself, creepo.
RAW,
Wow, now the guy who in an earlier post refered to "ra-ra" (thanks fnord) as his "dark master" is really revealing himself.
It's ok to ban people from your living room, at least I think it still is. Might be a new signing statement I haven't heard about yet that makes it illeagal to keep neocons out of your house.
Rick, i feel violated by these scum attacks which clearly are in violation of Florida cyber stalking laws. But nobody in law enforcement or the states atty office will touch it. I'll probably try the child agencies next since most of Mr keith ellingtons stuff is more than childish. jim
Mr keith ellington/tallahassee , fl-aka arkamite/raraw.
pls cease and desist your non-productive comments that serve no constructive purpose on this blog. you are not welcome on this blog. jim hruska , rangeragainstwar.
lol gay
listen jerky, i can do just about anything i want if it's worth a few years in club chatahoochee resort complex. it's one of the benefits of being a ward of the state.
nothing will happen.
They say trolls just mean you're doing a good job of getting the truth out. The more truth that they are afraid of that gets exposed to the light of day the more they come out and make asses of themselves.
I'd say you're hitting them where it hurts Ranger. Thanks for what you do here! And keep hitting and hitting hard. Think of it as repelling a close ambush.
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