Love thy Neighbor
--fr. Outdoor Life (Feb. 2010)Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying,
‘I am the light of the world: he that followeth me
shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life’
--Trijicon optic verse, fr. John 8-12
What you go and do
You go and give the boy a gun
Now there ain't place to run to
Ain't no place to run
--Bang, Bang, Bang, Tracy Chapman
______________
This is a follow on the military's Trijicon ACOG rifle sights which made the news recently because of the manufacturer's use of Bible verses on the scopes, a not very Christian thing to do when one considers the purpose of a rifle scope is to violate one of the Ten Commandments.
Trijicon has agreed to stop imprinting the Bible verse, and states they "will provide, free of charge, 100 modification kits to the Pentagon to enable the removal of the references that are already on products that are currently deployed” (Trijicon Drops Bible Line from Scope.) 100 kits hardly seems adequate, but apparently suffices as a goodwill gesture to keep the Pentagon from canceling their multi-million dollar contract.
The Trijicon ACOG 3.5 x 35 earns an average rating of 2.5 stars (on a four star system.) It rated C's for accuracy, low-light performance, versatility, price and value. The only "A" was for ease of use.
Further, Outdoor Life reports the scope delivered 2-to-3-inch groups at 400 yards, which Ranger seriously doubts. M16, M4 and variations of the AR15 are capable of sub-minute of angle groups, but not in military configuration. The fact that the barrels are free-floated on target variations easily aloows for tight groups, but military rifles do not feature this modification.
Ranger would be surprised if 8 to 10" groups could be shot by the average rifleman using GI-issue rifle and ammunition plus this sight. Note also that "sure kill" shots become less certain beyond 400 m.
This ACOG reticle lacks a horizontal stadia line (which allows for estimating the lead for a right- or left-moving target.) Speaking from past experience, without any visual aid from the scope reticle, all running targets become simply guesstimates. The reticle arrangement of this scope makes running shots guesses at best; throwing lead, at worst.
It isn't convincing that the ACOG is either cost-effective or the best choice for a military rifle optic.
Labels: PWOT, trijicon sight, war on terror
posted by rangeragainstwar at 6:43 PM
20 Comments:
there can be no innocence i'm afraid. God may never condone this.... this bloody work is the work of Man and Man alone.... the sacrilege should stop. it is only by His infinite Grace that we are not all damned.
in the same spirit, my friend holly near
On the comments associated with the original post we debated the value of scopes on battle rifles.
I never did make a statement re; biblical verses on scopes on battle rifles. Now I will. It is sick and twisted. Furthermore, it is counter productive to winning muslim hearts and minds. Instead, it lends creedence to Bin Laden's assertion that we are continuing the crusades. I think some among us are proud of this and don't want to hide it any more.
avedis
Avedis,
If you blow a man's heart out of his chest then you don't have to worry about his mind.
That's the plan here.
jim
MB,
That is so it. Thanks.
Jim,
I went through a Small Arms Weapons Instructors course, Night Vision Optics Course, Marskmanship Coaches Course, and a Combat Marksmanship Instructors Course. In at least 2 of these courses, I received while in the Marine Corps, we were provided with detailed info on how the ACOG(AKA RCO, rifle combat optic) works, how to zero the optic, and was familiarized with all the specifications and characteristics of the ACOG.
Why I bring this up is because you say that there is no horizontal stadia line that allows for the proper techniques of engaging moving targets. First of all, we both no the difference between half and full lead, as well as the 2 ways to engage(tracking and ambush), BUT you are wrong about the horizontal stadia line. There is a horizontal stadia line.
Before I go any further, have you looked through the lenses of an ACOG before?
I have.
Did you know that there are 2 different models of ACOGs?
-TA31RMR
-TA31RCO
And both have horizontal stadia lines. And both are 4x32, not 3.5x35. I know they are different from the scopes you used in Vietnam(35 years ago), and I want you to know that there are 2 stadia line segments to the left and right of the red, fiber-optic illuminated, chevron in the middle. The tip of the red chevron represents the vertical centerline, or zero mils. Under the red chevron is a small line segment that runs perpendicular to the horizontal stadia line.
Myself, as well as the Marines in my unit, loved the use of the ACOG/RCO. It was used for indirect fire missions and doubled as a spotting scope for the longer range engagements. It allowed for better accuracy at farther distances. It gave us an advantage in the mountain warfare setting.
And the M16 service rifle holds 4 minute of angle shot groups. If put in a vice.
Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad Leader
The picture of the ACOG at the beginning of this blog is NOT the ACOG used in the military. It may be an original model that was put on the market for civilian use, however, it is not the one that the military uses today.
The ACOG shown in the above picture is in fact a 3.5x35 but is not provided for the military. There are only 2 models provided to our U.S. Armed Forces.
Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad Leader
USMC,SL,
Thanks for the input.
Your cmts on the reticles and other points are well taken.
Thanks,
jim
No problem Jim, glad to help. And thank you for your service in Vietnam. It is greatly appreciated.
Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader
USMC,SL,
I do not accept thanks for my service-I DID IT FOR THE MONEY.
You asked and i didn't answer-i was in B53/5th SFG A in RVN.
I served with the 3rd Rgr Co at Benning, and was never with a BN.
I cmded 2 platoons and a company in my day-non ranger/non sf.Further i cmd 3 Army Marksmanship units to include Army Area Unit-3rd Army.I went to sniper school in 73 and my experience is with the Leatherwood Art System.
jim
USMC, SL,
First -see my cmts to u at milpub.
How did you find RAW? And milpub?
What is the diff on the 3.5 and 4 power acog, other than the magnification and reticles. Are they not the same basic animal?
Or is the issue acog simply designed for Marines who could fuck up an anvil?:)
jim
Jim,
The only thing that shows different in your picture of the 3.5x35 is the absence of the horizontal stadia line segments that would be located to the right and to the left of the red chevron.
You can search google for the ACOGs I listed above to see pictures of what it looks like looking through the scope of an ACOG issued to military personnel.
We should compete at a rifle match. I qualified to shoot at the inter-service matches in Quantico, VA in 2006. I'm sure you know, there they shoot up to a 1,000yds with just iron sights. :)
Sergeant/USMC/Infantry Squad Leader
Jim,
A few other differences are the actual reticle. The ones our military uses are red chevron looking triangles illuminated red by red fiber optic cable. Not green.
Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader
Jim,
The wife and I went into the Army recruiters office today, so she could inquire about enlistment, and I asked one of the Army Infantry guys there about the ACOG optics they used in theater(Afghanistan).
He informed me that the Army was issued 2 different versions of ACOGs, Version 1 was in fact the ACOG shown in the picture at the beginning of your blog. Version 2 utilized the same concept of optic, but with upgrades(i.e. instead of green circle for the reticle, they used a red chevron still with no horizontal stadia line).
The marine corps used the other 2 versions I listed in a previous post above(which had the horizontal stadia lines). Must have been one of those things where the Army tested it out first and made some changes. Word must have traveled fast enough to where our branch utilized the better of the 4 versions. Hence, why I believed all branches used the same versions.
Sorry for the mis-information.
What kind of optics did you see during your time in service? Really curious.
Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader
USMC,
Thanks for the update.
We were well aware that the civ mod was not exactly the same ,BUT the concept and reason for my art was still valid.
I used the 3-9 Redfield in sniper school.this was standard on the xm21.
In rvn i never used a scope of any sort.I had a 3x colt that i gave to a friend in a line unit.
I only 1x saw a scope in SOG and that was for some inexplicable reason on a recon team. It was a suppressed m14 rifle so they must've had a special mission,but i never asked nor did they ever tell.
The son tay raiders used aimpoints/red dots taped to their rifles.Can u believe that-taped,for christ sake.These items were purchased at sears and roebucks in Fayetteville.The Army is a wondrous thing.
The m21 scopes from rvn are rare collectors items and have 30 in cams where 36in cams are standard for shooting westerners.
Hope that slakes your curiosity.
jim
If I had a choice of 3 personal side arms I would choose a scoped M14 for long range, suppressed M4 with all the optics and picatinni rail system for tactical ops, and a Benelli 12 gauge semi-auto for close quarters.
What would you choose?
Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader
SL,
I'd choose a St James edition of the Bible. In lieu of that I'd pick a pre war model 70 with a stripper guide and a Lyman 1/4 inch iron reciever sight.Model 48. 308 rebarrelled w. a Hart barrel/fluted/air gauged. I'm also fond of the m14 but ammo is too hard to replenish ww. a semi.Bolt preferred. But i don't have to choose, i've got plenty. Also at my age blue pills are better than boat tail bullets.
jim
jim
Jim,
Good man, and Amen. Not familiar with the 'blue pills' but I think I got your point. :)
Sergeant/USMC/Squad Leader
SL,
Blue pills are Viagra and i prefer them for close quarters work.
Now you young guys like the bells and whistles.The only way to survive a gunfight is to not get into one.I will not be entering bldgs and will only shoot defensively.
My home protection is .
-M37 itacha 12/police version.
-model 97 winchester pump.
-remington 1148 12
-cz75
I keep a ruger mini 14 in my trunk since i live in the woods.
there it is.
I'm not a fan of kill your neighbor guns.
jim
I have a TA31 RCO A4CP. It is the exact one used by Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan on their M16A4 rifles. it has stadia lines on the left and right, it has wholes and half, a sort of big little big little big little big system. Marines used it to call out targets, ex: "Sgt we're taking fire 2 stadia lines right of the blue building." An issued M16A4 is plenty accurate, especially in the hands of a skilled Marine. Do yourself a favor and purchase a Colt AR15A4, and slap a TA31 RCO A4CP on it. (cp stands for civilian package)
Post a Comment
<< Home