Jolly Roger
--Henry Every's Jolly RogerWe're rascals, scoundrels villains, and knaves
Drink up me hearties yo ho
We're devils and black sheep - really bad eggs
--Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me),
The Pirates of the Carribean
With cat-like tread,
Upon our prey we steal;
In silence dread,
Our cautious way we feel
--A Rollicking Band of Pirates We,
Pirates of Penzance
A state of war only serves
as an excuse for domestic tyranny
--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Drink up me hearties yo ho
We're devils and black sheep - really bad eggs
--Yo Ho (A Pirate's Life for Me),
The Pirates of the Carribean
With cat-like tread,
Upon our prey we steal;
In silence dread,
Our cautious way we feel
--A Rollicking Band of Pirates We,
Pirates of Penzance
A state of war only serves
as an excuse for domestic tyranny
--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
___________________
The United States Marine Corps is not enjoying its its finest hour of late.
In mid-January 2012, a film showing four members of Marine Scout-Sniper Team 4 with 3rd Battalion 2nd Marines peeing on dead, “suspected” Taliban bodies went viral. Next, U.S. Marine Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich, accused of leading a massacre of 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005, pleaded guilty later in the month to "dereliction of duty", avoiding the more serious charges of involuntary manslaughter and aggravated assault (he was originally charged with homicide). He received zero jail time. In the USMC it seems revenge killing is viewed as good soldiering.
Now the Scout-Snipers are back in the news as 2010 pictures of a platoon taken in Helmand province’s Sangin district posing in front of a Nazi SS insignia has surfaced. Something is wrong in the USMC; the institution seems to have has lost its moral compass.
In the current issue of Tactical Knives Magazine (p.25, May 2012), Ranger noticed the black flag patches with death’s head on the uniforms of some Navy SEALS. This hearkens back to the old pirate flag, the Jolly Roger, which stood for “No Quarter” – when the Jolly Roger is hoist, all enemy will be killed. This should not be a comforting concept to non-warrior taxpaying citizens.
When Seal Team 6 entered Osama bin Laden’s home, they took no quarter. No quarter is neither a Geneva Convention concept, nor one of civilized societies.
When Seal Team 6 entered Osama bin Laden’s home, they took no quarter. No quarter is neither a Geneva Convention concept, nor one of civilized societies.
The U.S. has a Navy and USMC running amok, indulging attitudes and actions that run counter to core U.S. values. Doubly troubling is that the Chain of Command encourages, or at least permits, these excesses. Is Admiral McRaven, U.S. Special Operations Command, blind? Does he not see these deaths head patches?
Why does the U.S. allow any deaths head on any patch, official or non? Are we now reduced to adoration of SS Runes? Did the U.S. win WW II only to co-opt the loser’s symbolism? Is that what we have become? Surely these skulls do not represent the brotherhood of man. Why did we fight the Nazis?
After numerous discussions with current soldiers, Ranger believes that they think that hate is a legitimate and necessary military tool, and that inhumanity is to be expected on today’s battlefield. However, it is Ranger’s belief that soldiering should not involve hatred, if only for pragmatic reasons, as it minimizes military effectiveness. I was a professional soldier, not a professional killer. The two concepts are distinct, and that is one of things that sets an American soldier apart from his tyrannical counterparts.
Why does the U.S. allow any deaths head on any patch, official or non? Are we now reduced to adoration of SS Runes? Did the U.S. win WW II only to co-opt the loser’s symbolism? Is that what we have become? Surely these skulls do not represent the brotherhood of man. Why did we fight the Nazis?
After numerous discussions with current soldiers, Ranger believes that they think that hate is a legitimate and necessary military tool, and that inhumanity is to be expected on today’s battlefield. However, it is Ranger’s belief that soldiering should not involve hatred, if only for pragmatic reasons, as it minimizes military effectiveness. I was a professional soldier, not a professional killer. The two concepts are distinct, and that is one of things that sets an American soldier apart from his tyrannical counterparts.
When we abandon our humanity we are no longer soldiers and have crossed the lines into warriors, and any soldierly creeds mouthed become merely hollow words. The actions mentioned above indicate the military is not on the same sheet of music as the U.S. Armies of recent past.
Labels: ss symbology, united states marine corps, usmc, usmc scout snipers, wuterich
posted by rangeragainstwar at 7:09 PM
41 Comments:
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Message flagged
Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:17 AM
Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Jolly Roger":
but Jim, the Marines didn't know the flag's historic meaning. Stupid jar heads. They inocently thought it meant 'scout sniper'.
what a lame excuse.
Oh look,
http://www.totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30
about half way down the page is the exact same flag, and this is likely the source of the flag in question, surrounded by other nazi paraphenalia and clearly labeled as an SS symbol.
I have to say though, that I am surprised that you are surprised by all of this. The Marines have long drilled into grunts' heads that they are killers and that their job is to become the most efficient killers possible. I can see where the SS would serve as a role model. Marines have long felt they are a breed apart from the other service branches and especially civilians in this regard and that the rules that apply to those lesser groups do not apply to them.
I am a little surprised that the officers (and NCOs?) and PR machine are permitting such open displays of this attitude. It's a little scary. Good order and discipline must be breaking down.
Then again, it is probably what you get when you have a crass civilian population that idolizes barbaric behavior.
avedis
Posted by Anonymous to RANGER AGAINST WAR at Wednesday, February 15, 2012 1:17:00 AM GMT-05:00
Avedis,
your cmt didn't make it thru blogger for some reason.
i'm not surprised about this event. 1 just needs to look and the whole she bang is obvious. how many black sniper scouts do you ever see in pics? ditto force recon.
there's a problem here.
the problem is systemic.just go back to the book-GENERATION KILL. in the airborne we end briefings with ALL THE WAY. in that book they sound off with-KILL.
IT'S ALL RATHER SIMPLE , but killing is not the sole element of winning wars but some how we've forgotten this b/c we fight unwinnable wars - SO KILLING BECOMES THE SOLE METRIC OF SUCCESS.
I'VE WRITTEN ABOUT THIS SO MUCH THAT I BORE MYSELF WITH THE ESSAYS.
i did 1 more on warrior hood for milpub and raw. will prob. be posted soon.
my cs/css is contractor so i can't force march her.
jim
Jim, haven't read Gen Kill. Did see one or two installments of the HBO series.
Ok. yes. You get it. 'nough said.
I think the USMC needs a foe like the imperial japanese to take it out on. maybe they will get lucky and NoKo will supply such an opportunity; with the added bonus of revenge for the frozen chosin.
avedis
"Where it all going man? Do you know?"
--Sir Doug Sahm
There it is.
Deryle
Aloha, Jim and Lisa...!
It's been awhile since I've popped by...!
Any thoughts on the Syrian Abyss we're facing...?
Thing aren't getting any better any time soon.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/13/afghanistan-base-nazi-name_n_1273444.html
Aloha, CT,
Glad to hear from you, tho' I haven't any thoughts on the topic.
it's a fine line Jim...
Hiya C Tuttle, I was just reading your comments on MoA. Small world :-)
Concerning the thread's topic, reading stories from 100 years back when the Philippines got a taste of USMC war ethics, leaves one in no doubt that today's "elite units" have within their own history a rich portfolio to draw on when it comes to acting out their "Kill? Fuck Yeah!" ideology.
"At any time I am liable to be called upon to go out and bind and gag helpless prisoners, to strike them in the face, to knock them down when so bound, to bear them away from wife and children, at their very door, who are shrieking pitifully the while, or kneeling and kissing the hands of our officers, imploring mercy from those who seem not to know what it is, and then, with a crowd of soldiers, hold our helpless victim head downward in a tub of water in his own yard, or bind him hand and foot, attaching ropes to head and feet, and then lowering him into the depths of a well of water till life is well-nigh choked out, and the bitterness of a death is tasted, and our poor, gasping victims ask us for the poor boon of being finished off, in mercy to themselves.
All these things have been done at one time or another by our men, generally in cases of trying to obtain information as to the location of arms and ammunition.
Nor can it be said that there is any general repulsion on the part of the enlisted men to taking part in these doings. I regret to have to say that, on the contrary, the majority of soldiers take a keen delight in them, and rush with joy to the making of this latest development of a Roman holiday."
Avedis,
damn ,boy.
do i have to teach you USMC history?
the gooks at Chosin were chinese and not NOKO types, but in a pinch any will do as moving targets!
is that MC thinking?
jim
jo6,
it really is amazing that stuff like this happens.
could you imagine a fight there that would produce a MOH citation?
how would they sanitize , or justify,that name-COP ARYAN.?!
Doesn't that say it all.?
our 1000 year democracy is getting shaky.
i think i'll have a bottle of good german white wine tonite.:)
jim
"I was a professional soldier, not a professional killer. The two concepts are distinct, and that is one of things that sets an American soldier apart from his tyrannical counterparts"....Ranger
I'm having a serious disconnect here Jim. In Vietnam I was a 'professional killer'. no matter how I look at it, this was, and is my sorry reality. I didn't give a flying fuck about the Army being a career path. I didn't care about medals or any other damn thing except trying to stay alive and doing my 'job' professionally. As you know medals, citation's etc. was a prerequisite for advancement for the 'professional' soldier who intended to make a career in the military.
My wife and I got invited to an 'black tie' fund raiser for Af Pak and Iraq Veterans. My Doctor introduced me to well heeled couple and mentioned to them that I had fought in Vietnam for a number of years. God, it was like a death sentence while I awaited the inevitable well intentioned, but to me, inane questions. I got through about three Q+A's but the fourth question, the fourth, was cause for concern, "How did you do THAT day after day (meaning me killing)" ? I snap fired back "SIMPLE , it was a job just like your job but it was 24/7+365, and the pay sucked".
The champagne smiles dissolved into a pale faced shock, they tried to say something but no words came out. They left my company looking a bit wobbly , like they had been on a week long bender at 'Clancy's'.... There it is Bro
Well-done, BH.
Jim is now going to say to the pat, "Thank you for your service":
No thanks needed -- I enjoyed killing people, and I got paid, too.
Inanity works well, at times.
Bh,
i'd say that you were a defensive killer and did not go out of your way to do violence.
this is different than what a pro killer does.
i also doubt that you enjoyed it.
any way, i hope.
jim
[RANGER AGAINST WAR] New comment on Jolly Roger.
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Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Jolly Roger":
I think I get this, actually, because I have an eight-year-old kid. And he gets all "ooooh...cool!" at the German panzers, or the Imperial stromtroops in Star Wars.
Let's face it; when you have the mind of an eight-year-old, what's important is to have COOL STUFF.
Bring this forward to the USMC units involved in this and you get the idea. These guys don't know from Nazis, they don't know from pirates - hell, they don't even know their own unit histories because if they did they'd find all sorts of bloodthirsty heritage to cull "cool stuff" from - they just know that the black-flag SS-rune things are "cool".
I fault their chain-of-command, that doesn't seem to have the time or inclination to chase this stuff down and initiate enough wall-to-wall counseling to get these guys' minds right. Twenty-year-old troops are fucking stupid - stupid enough to believe they'll live forecer; that's why militaries since Sumer love them. It's their leaders who are supposed to supply the grown-up, but as we've seen from the conduct of these ridiculous "wars", unlike the Boy Scouts there doesn't seem to be any adult leadership here.
BH,
been thinkin' on your cmts.
-there were several wars in vn.tho we were physically located-long thanh/plantation , we were worlds apart.
-we all deal with what we saw/did in our own way. our dialogues always point to this reality.
-i just prefer to think of myself as a soldier and not a killer.fortunately i was not exposed to the level of combat that you saw in a line unit.we were somewhat disconnected.
you were more down and dirty.
-i never based anything that i did on hatred ,so that's why i always fall back on soldier terrain.
i understand what you are saying.
-the problem here is that 40 some years later we're seeing the same old song being played to the troops.at least that's how i see it.
it's always a pleasure to hear from you.
jim
Jim,
The fact is we both did what we thought was our duty in an impossible war. We cannot measure this meddle with any yard stick I know of.
I believe the young Marines in Af/Pac are finding themselves in a similar no win situation. They have to all know that by 2013-14 the 'bug-out' factor is there. The SS rune in the picture depicted in Marine the scout sniper platoon has been actually used since the 1980's according to Wilki. So much of the truth has been censored for U.S.'s PG-13 audiences that I find it refreshing to see it from their POV, no matter how distasteful we find it.
As an aside in Vietnam some psyops idiot wrote the Bicycle Playing Card company and requested 52 Ace of spades only card decks. These were used as calling cards to be placed on enemy KIA's bodies. As you know the Vietnamese were inveterate card players but their decks did not include the Ace of Spades. So It didn't mean a damn thing to the enemy.
One grunt when asked about the logic of this psyop brainchild was quoted as saying, 'them sons a bitches fight like the devil, so why the hell you want to stir up a hornets nest by doing a dumb assed thing like that'.
Uncommon wisdom of the 'dogface'
The "8-year-old" comment was me, Jim.
And I should add that my kid DOES know that the Nazis and the Star Wars stormtroopers are "bad", and that imitating them is not a good idea.
Which makes these effing jarheads not smarter than an eight-year-old.
BH,
in 1970 when i stepped foot off the plane,I KNEW IT WAS LOST before i even drew my TA-50.
we knew it. after 1968 we knew it, and yet 22000 more of us good young men got blased by the cannon of history.
i don't think that the Marines in question understand what we felt in our bones.
i'm gonna write a post-ALL I EVER NEEDED TO KNOW I LEARNED IN SNIPER SCHOOL. i'm just trying to figure how to incorporate this present scenario into my thinking.
i write for the reasons that you mentioned in your last post.
chief,
in 1970 i was no smarter than an 8 y/o.as for the Nazis, i have a sticking point. ww1/2 were every bit a british/french butt fuck as it was german.
jim
BH,
the American soldiers in rvn were largely draftees, but still they fought and served the country as required by the chain of command.
this dedication in the face of frustration and what we saw as futile is what makes us great, and it's also what makes us weak.
but i always marvel at the troops and their performance under enemy fire.
it's often breath taking.
jim
jim: I'll give you WW1. The second one? Enh...there are bad people and BAD people, and the Nazis were about as bad as our own Southerners in 1861. Some causes really ARE wrong. And regardless of the cause, the fuckers killed GIs. Now I'll be the first one to admit that I respect the hell out of the ability of the Germans, the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Red Chinese to fight. But as a GI to tog myself out in their kit? WTF?
And U.S. troop who feels compelled to wear a Nazi symbol needs to check his cranial headspace and timing, because there's a serious malfunction going on in there.
Chief,
my point on ww2 is that Hitler was no greater threat to europe than was napoleon, and the euros handled it with out our help.
what destroyed europe was the death of diplomacy, in which our ww1 participation helped to shit can .
in the past , i think, you opined that ww2 was an extension of 600 years of internecine warfare.
if you didn't say this , then i do.
the whole idea of america, in a nut shell was that we were supposed to separate ourselves from the INSANITY of the euro wars. that's why my grandparents came, and the pilgrims,shakers,quakers,and all the others.that's why we ALWAYS feared standing armies, that is until st6 entered the entertainment world.
we were supposed to be different, and i for one didn't see a rch diff betw hitler and stalin. the brits/french weren't exactly saints.we're still paying for their sins-not the sins of the nazi's.
the instability of the arab world, and the war in vn are direct descendents of br/fr policy.
we fail to utilize our best feature-relative isolation,physically.
thanks for your input.
jim
chief,
bottom line- my essay is about deaths heads on our democratic, christian soldiers uniforms.
i wore 1 when i wore a young mans clothes.
it wasn't right then, and it ain't right now.even for what we call ELITE units.
jim
wtf?
"However, it is Ranger’s belief that soldiering should not involve hatred, if only for pragmatic reasons, as it minimizes military effectiveness. I was a professional soldier, not a professional killer. The two concepts are distinct, and that is one of things that sets an American soldier apart from his tyrannical counterparts.
When we abandon our humanity we are no longer soldiers and have crossed the lines into warriors, and any soldierly creeds mouthed become merely hollow words."
Someone clue our Army Ranger friend (or the so-called "co-writer" that may in fact be the primary writer) in on the fact that Marines are not soldiers, reject that title, and that Marines tend to eagerly embrace titles like "killer" and "warrior".
Trying to use killer warrior Marines as local police forces may be a dumb choice to make, but our nation does maintain a Corps of Marines for a reason.
ctmason,
I can assure you, this wasn't my thinking.
As a civilian, I would not dare to say anything about what motivates a soldier or Marine. The only thing I know about hatred is what atrocities have been committed in its name.
I have been surprised by the liberality of the writer's thinking, but he has been consistent in his position, and has been there; I have not.
ctmason,
per your cmt.
we have journalistic integrity at RAW. everything written is attributed. note that all arts are signed, and indeed we co-author pieces. all is appropriately signed as -posted by...
but this is not the point-you disrespect me, and my experience and viewpoint.why do you find it doubtful that i write what i do.?!
you are invited to my house and i will show you the 40 plus notebooks filled with art. written by my hand.
i write and that's a fact.
jim
Mason,
it doesn't matter what the marines like or don't like.
THEY ARE SOLDIERS.
the only diff. between abn,mech,light,marine,ranger,seals,is how they get to the fight. it's simply a matter of what soccer mom drives them to the playing field.
once they get there they all have to kick the ball towards the goal.they even wear the same uniforms, and carry the same weapons.
this is so fucking simple that even a simple, old ranger can grasp the concept.
if they ain't soldiers then what are they?
what do they do that's so different from army troopers,other than to take a piss on government time.?!
jim
to all, i'm a wonderin' why if marines are not soldiers then why do they wear exactly the same awards and decorations as the army.
huh?!!! dah!!!!
with the exception of the combat action ribbon and the navy cross.
do warriors have their own schedule of awards , or are they happy with rape, pillage, plunder?
jim
The reason I assumed it wasn't an actual Army Ranger that wrote that is because I assumed that any actual Ranger would know better. Maybe that isn't the case. I know not to call you a sailor, for example, and that any argument centered around asking a bunch of Army guys to be more nautical would be silly.
You are correct that Marines meet the dictionary definition of "soldier", but pretty far off the mark in assuming that any appeal centered around "soldierly virtue" that also disparages the terms "killer" and "warrior" is going to be well received by Marines or in any way effective.
"Killer" and "warrior" are both terms higher up Marines address junior Marines by when said junior enlisted Marines are doing something good, while "devil dog" (eg, agents of Lucifer, bringers of death, etc) is used when a junior Marine is doing something bad.
The way the "be civilized" argument is correctly made to Marines is to *embrace* warrior, killer, etc and then make the case from a chivalric viewpoint. You can attempt to replace the death's head with the red cross of the crusader, if you want, but you aren't going to get very far with this "talk and act like office workers" approach.
"Killers and warriors are bad, you guys should be like the Army" is a nonstarter. Marines don't *want* goofy baby blue uniforms and french hats, nor for everyone to address each other as "Sarge", nor "soldierly virtue" and other shit like that, we *like* our 19th century uniforms and everything thus implied.
Shit man, seen the lyrics to the Marines' Hymn?
It's about conquering Mexico and part of North Africa, not about defending the nation when invaded.
Expeditionary means bringing the fight to the enemy, and killing him.
That is probably part of the cultural disconnect. The Army exists to defend and be reactive and the culture is formed thusly. The Naval service exists to pro-actively seek out and kill people when those people being dead is convenient for perceived or actual national interests.
The options on the table for symbolism are American force projection, British Empire force projection, Crusader force projection, or German force projection.
Check out the official WW2 logo of Marine Raiders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MARINERAIDERS.png
It's depicts two things: death and having sex with Aussie women.
First Marine Division: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1st_MARDIV_2_insignia.png
Killing Japanese people, and having sex with Aussie women.
I could continue. And these are the *official* insignia.
German Afrika Korps in WW2: http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/2527/1000pxdaksvgpngpngima.png
Marines in Somalia: http://209.200.109.169/arfcom/images/usmc_AK.jpg
Brits in Afghanistan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:QRL_Helmand_2.JPG
I'm just confused by why everyone is acting all surprised. This is not new.
Marine recon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Reconnaissance_Battalions#Organization
You can theoretically say that death worship has no effect on military efficiency.
You can NOT say that Anbar and Helmand were handed over to Marine units for no reason.
Mason,
All that killer, warrior shit sure did a lot to win the Iraq goat fuck.
What did the Marines accomplish in Fallujah other than dying as warriors? Good show that. Did killing and warrior-hood do one damned thing in Afghanistan? That country will be the same ball of wax after you warriors go home. What did your killing, or the Armies killing, amount to?
Not a hill of beans.
Killing is not what makes America great, and it won't do so in the future. Marines are soldiers. When they are in a JTF what are they doing other than soldiering? Why do USMC officers go to Army schools? Why do your people go to Ranger school?
TO LEARN SOLDIERING. I'll bet a challenge coin that ANY marine INFY would pass the EIB test, and any good soldier would pass your proficiency tests, so where's the beef?
jim
I addressed and refuted that in my very first post:
"Trying to use killer warrior Marines as local police forces may be a dumb choice to make, but our nation does maintain a Corps of Marines for a reason."
You can totally call in the warrior killer Marines if you want killing and warmaking.
It should be telling that in trying to make an honest effort form credible civil affairs groups actually interested in having a go at that sort of work, USMC HQ for the most part had to resort to calling up Reservists who were then looked down upon with contempt by other Marines.
The very notion of 'nation building' is openly mocked in MC circles. Example:
My old platoon's custom made t-shirts depicted a Marine holding a human heart and brain with the logo "Fallujah hearts and minds tour" and a list of some of the places we saw action at. This wasn't even a special "elite" unit, just an anonymous regular line platoon in a rifle company.
CTM,
I haven't been back to this thread in a long time. I'm not going to engage you regarding the mission of Corps. But I ask like you to consider the words of the most highly decorated Marine Officer the Corps ever produced, General Smedly D. Butler, winner of two Congressional Medals of Honor in separate actions and the Marine Corps Brevit Medal. The only General Officer to do so. He retired from the Corps in 1931.
I'm sure you have heard of 'Chesty' Puller, 'Howling Mad' Smith, and Matt Ridgeway. Why then was the General Butler tossed into the dustbin of Marine history ? Would it be because he had the uncommon courage to expose the then nascent military/industrial complex in his 1935 Book 'War is A Racket'. I quote from:
"War is a racket. It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of the people. Only a small 'inside' group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."
If we use this as a 1930's template and do an overlay from the 80's to 2012 we should see on the 'Nation building' theme as an lame extension of war by other means. Cui Bono ? Not the Grunt. Go to the VA and see the sickening way the Af/Iraq Vets are treated. The VA is being cut to the bone while war profiteers such as Halliburton, Raytheon, G.E. and the Banks who fund them, reap obscene profits. For who's freedom ?
It's not about who's the baddest kid on the block, it's not the point. It's about exposing the racket and refusing to be spoon fed lies. Both you and I did our 'jobs' in different wars and yea, I was in a regular line unit like you.
BH,
the thing that we share is that we were both technically and tactically proficient which is the definition of soldiering. it doesn't matter at whaT LEVEL OR WHERE YOU SERVED, this requirement is always the same.
add hatred and shake and you get warriors.
warrior hood is too cutsey for my taste.how do they differ from the crips and bloods?
jim
thanks for your input.
jim
@Blackhawk - Presumptuous to assume that I'm not well familiar with the civil accomplishments of Smedley. You forgot to mention his revealing the fascist coup ("business plot") that was being planned in the United States, and his vocal support of the early Occupy DC movement ("bonus army").
@Ranger - Your questions reveal the cultural disconnect I spoke of earlier; though bike gangs or drug cartels are the more common comparison.
CTM,
If you read my thread posts carefully I did not presume your lack of knowledge on any subject. In fact we were in agreement on some core thread issues. RAW is a free fire zone and if there anything we agree on here, it's the observation that analytic skills are honed by not being in fascist lockstep.
Some years ago, I dropped into this LZ guns blazing, but I was tolerated and eventually came to believe I had something contribute. I also believe anything you care to contribute is of value to all of us that are trying to wade through the sea of bullshit.
BH,
i must cmt on your reply-WE DID NOT TOLERATE you,but rather openly accepted and welcomed you as we all persons. we do not edit or restrict any one unless they are hateful beyond redemption.
We embraced you as a brother.
you have a lot to contribute and we are glad that you found your way to us.
jim
To all,
this is a late comment based on my reading of Sledges book titled=with the old breed.
in the book he talks of a LT named Mac who used to piss on dead japanese soldiers.
Sledge was most condemning of this mans behavior.
just something to think about.
jim
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