Befehl ist Befehl
--Why don't you go to the police?
--I'm my own police
--This Gun for Hire (1942)
His hope was to remind the world
that fairness, justice, and freedom
are more than words,
they are perspectives
--V is for Vendetta (2005)
It's just murder. All God's creatures do it.
You look in the forests and you see
species killing other species,
our species killing all species including the forest,
and we just call it industry, not murder
--Natural Born Killers (1994)
________________
--I'm my own police
--This Gun for Hire (1942)
His hope was to remind the world
that fairness, justice, and freedom
are more than words,
they are perspectives
--V is for Vendetta (2005)
It's just murder. All God's creatures do it.
You look in the forests and you see
species killing other species,
our species killing all species including the forest,
and we just call it industry, not murder
--Natural Born Killers (1994)
________________
Commissar Order (Hitler):
"As a matter of principle, they will be shot at once, whether captured during operations or otherwise showing resistance."
Partisan Order (Field Marshal Keitel):
"This fight has nothing to do with the soldierly gallantry or principles of the Geneva Conventions."
"If the fight against the partisans in the East as well as the Balkans, is not waged with the most brutal means ..."
________________"As a matter of principle, they will be shot at once, whether captured during operations or otherwise showing resistance."
Partisan Order (Field Marshal Keitel):
"This fight has nothing to do with the soldierly gallantry or principles of the Geneva Conventions."
"If the fight against the partisans in the East as well as the Balkans, is not waged with the most brutal means ..."
In our post-Nuremberg world, war lords like Slobodan Milosevic and Charles Taylor face imprisonment for their crimes against humanity. Meanwhile, President Obama plays dice with people's lives by conducting extrajudicial killings. It is Ranger's contention that killing one man unjustly is the same as killing six million -- it is simply a matter of magnitude rather than morality.
Murder can only be justified by State action if it has a legitimate end that gains more than than it loses. Drone warfare does not accomplish that. From today's Slate: "The politics of drone war drains the proverbial sea of America’s ideological supporters and undermines the only basis for waging effective war: popular support of the people who feel threatened" (Hatred: What Drones Sow.)
The question for the continuance of drone warfare is a simple one: By what authority, be it legal or moral, does the U.S. President oversee targeted kills? Obviously, as Commander in Chief, he must provide oversight for military killing (= "warfare"), but Predator marauding is not warfare.
The Central Intelligence Agency is a civilian intelligence agency without a legitimate mandate to kill anyone. The authority vested in the office of President as C-in-C does not extend to non-military applications of violence.
Further, what is the reason for launching missiles in places like Yemen? Do we believe that the people being vaporized are threats to the national interests of the United States? Have we lost the ability to prioritize threats, and the brain power to realize that near and far threats are not the same thing?
Al Qaeda in Yemen is a a Yemeni and Saudi problem. When did the U.S. become their hired gun? The U.S. is not at war there, and the might and power of the U.S. war-making machine cannot legally be applied to individuals or non-State players. The definition of war precludes the use of State death-dealing.
Hitler's and Keitel's orders were issued during a declared and clearly-defined war. Commissars and partisans were not soldiers, but they were enemy personnel openly carrying arms. These orders were illegal but the intent was based upon military logic, even if a perverted logic. Where does the U.S. logic lie?
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. reported that President Truman was physically sickened by his decision to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki. However, by making the decision Truman was acting within his authority during a general war scenario. Truman was also a World War I artilleryman and familiar with death in an up-close and personal way; his decisions were presumably not made blithely.
In a democracy we need civilian leaders with humanity at their core, rather than the coolness of a mafia don. We fete Obama's detached coolness when he nods his head sanctioning another official murder, but how are Obama's actions different from Hitler's? How different from those of Milosevic or Taylor?
How did men like Cheney, George W. Bush, Obama and Romney gain their lust for killing? What is my role in this deadly drama, as my tax dollars help pay for the missiles that rein death from the skies?
When Hellfire missiles become the symbol of America, and when our Democratic party leaders embrace assassination, then where are we as a nation? Why are we o.k. with our leaders acting like the Partisan Order is the standard operating procedure for our nation?
When neither political party will demand Enlightenment values, then we are walled up in a town called Nuremberg.
Labels: befehl, death panels, drones, fuhrer, hellfire missiles, obama and kill orders, presidential assassination, PWOT, war on terror
22 Comments:
I am curious...How would you take out Al Qwacky in Yemen or Somalia?
Nothing personal mind you but I find complaining about the "problem" with offering a "solution" to be a bit tedious...
Take Care.
RWH,
If you find my essays to be fruitless complaining then don't log on.
I am not in the TAKE OUT business and offer no solutions.I would not take out anyone.
jim
RWH,
I MUST say that i find it weird that you depersonalize a dead man.
jim
WRH,
ISTM questioning is the beginning of all knowledge. We must look into the questions and make sure they are the correct ones.
When you ask, "How would you take out Al Qwacky in Yemen or Somalia?", you are making a presumption that it is the correct question; maybe it is not.
That is what RAW does -- questions the presumptions, and that has value. We have policymakers paid to find "solutions" to the problems, but are they asking the right questions, divining the correct problems?
Day late and a dollar short, however:
Wm Ranger Hazen, Got to say both Jim and Lisa are correct in their positions.
Last 6 decades of this country's history is predicated on the premise that American exceptionality justifies "taking out" somebody or some country.More than six decades, actually, more like ALL of this country's history , but I had to start somehere.
Our current national beliefs and behaviours, held up to any civilized standard is atrocious.
Oh , we justify it under the guise of an ever-gross gross national product, or our fear of the "other" or our fear that our "cherished way of...consuming..might be cut short before we can get enough stuff to fill that 2nd storage unit.
Sweet jesus, how long will this barbarity continue?
"Take out?"..that's for Chinese food and pizza, not civilized discourse.
But then, we've already conceded that one, eh?
There it is,
Deryle
"Tell the truth about what you see and do. There is an army depending on you for correct information. You can lie all you please when you tell other folks about the Rangers, but never lie to another Ranger or to an officer".-Major Robert Rogers
That about sums up my response...The fact you were offended by my asking a simple question and my opinion of the aforementioned post sadly tells me I have outgrown this place.
As Plato once said..."Only the dead know the end of war."
I agree with about 90% of what you write Jim and if you expect me to agree with everything you write well then sir I submit you have swallowed your own kool aid.
The fact is there are folks every day who bid and plot to do us harm and thus my question stands... though I will rephrase it slightly... If I had a choice between them and us what would I do...There in lies the conundrum of the State. There has never been a holy place of American Do Gooder-ism in American Military History. It is chock full of moral ambiguity, the slaughter of innocents, and us not "fighting fair". I am just as anti-war as you if not more so since I have been vilified for it for over a decade now. Obama in my opinion a least tries to navigate the razors edge unlike the last bozo President.
You have been able to navigate the razors edge yourself in the past but seem to fallen off becoming ever more shrill in your rhetoric and if you can't handle a Fellow Anti War Ranger's questions or opinion with nothing more than an emotional response Adios I say...
I can get that to excess over at SOCNET. LOL
Good Luck to you and Lisa and you will always have my support.
Happy Trails to Yooooou.... Until We meet Again- Roy Rodgers
uh....oh....uh..
OOPS
Deryle
After reading
Bad Tux Snarky stuff.
Dear WRH,
We would never be offended by your p.o.v.; we value it much, as you must know.
Speaking for myself, my response was balanced and not accusatory in any way. I do find value in exploring the questions themselves; if we ask only one, we are often limited to a knee jerk response. For instance: "Do I want THEM fighting me over HERE?" Well of course, the answer is no.
Now, if the question shifts, like, "CAN they fight us over here?" Then we arrive at different thoughts. I value the entire spectrum of possibilities.
Don't go, Wm. -- you'll never find another RAW :)
RWH,
i was not offended , and additionally i expect NOTHING from you.
You are mixing ideology and dogma with morality, and they are not interchangeable.
Rogers was a simple man and so were his rules,but he knew how to kill a man up close and personal, unlike Obama.
When you ask me for answers please be aware that i'm not Ann fucking Landers, and this blog is not ASK RANGER for advice.
I ask no man or woman to agree with me on any issue-i write what i believe and you are free to agree or not.
You need to get your shakras in order.
I am not shrill.
jim
jim
Well Lisa
The idea in this interconnected Global world of ours... that fighting them over there means not having to fight them here is in my opinion outdated.
Did you know we are at War with Russia, Iran, China, and North Korea? Everyday they probe and attack our country in "cyberspace" and we do the same.
Find Them... Fix Them... and Kill Them is no longer constricted by "borders or battlefields" in an Asymmetric World...Technology has changed that... perhaps not forever... but in a way that will insure that the rules of War will never be the same again.
Even those not connected to technology cannot hide for long and no where is there "safe ground".
When RAW can offer up an ideal time when Our Government was not "morally" challenged by it's military actions then I got a bridge in Arizona I'll buy.
Dissent is a birthright of ours..One I'll defend to the death... but you'd better make sense...
Like my old gaffer taught me...If you got 95% ice cream and 5% shit no matter how much you wish it was ice cream it's still going to taste like shit.
That is the world our policy makers live in and the current CinC has done a damn sight better job of dealing with that fact than the last one.
I may stick around...We'll see. It looks like Jim may need my advice from time to time.LOL ;)
"How would you take out Al Qwacky in Yemen or Somalia?"
As John Paul Vann would have said; with a knife.
Failing that, a rifle.
Short of a bullet, anything else risks inflicting more harm than doing "good".
The bottom line is that the unpaved portions of the world are going to spawn angry bastards like old cheese draws flies. Sending million-dollar drone missions to kill individuals or even whole villages isn't a "solution" when the realities of U.S. policy will always create more of these gomers.
So I'd say the solutions are pretty simple.
1. Start with weaning ourselves off the petroleum tit. I see that as the biggie.
Half the damn problems we have in the world outside the U.S. littoral is concentrated in these damn petro-kleptocracies because of our need to keep the oil tap on means we have to keep their sons-of-bitches in power. The Mubaraks and Saddams and Sauds we bankroll and protect spawn a new target for every one we service.
2. Quit sucking up to Israel.
I'm not saying throw the fucker out the window (though it'd be nice to hear some U.S. politician admit that if we wanted to enforce the Balfour Declaration we could have offered ben Gurion Utah; it's deserty as fuck and it'd have been fun to see which of the zealots turned out to be meaner and tougher than the other - let the best persecuted religious minority win!) but just try and treat them like any other useful neutral; kiss them when they're nice, kick them when they're not.
Outside of that, not invading countries that didn't attack us? Especially Muslim countries? That'd be a good start.
3. Recognize that these guys are basically spies and crooks; muggers, thieves, secret sneaks, and assassins, and start treating them like that.
These drone strikes and invasions feed their warrior fantasies. A combination of HUMINT, lawfare, working with the local warlords/governments (often the same), and the occasional midnight door-knock should be enough to keep these guys on the hop.
And accept that's ALL you're ever gonna do. Nothing's gonna "take out" AQ unless the locals get tired of their ass. Us bombing their wimmen and kids? Doesn't help.
IMO all these ridiculous airstrikes and the public woofing and flexing that seems to go with them are more to fool the rubes than to "take out" anything over the long term. It's killing ants with a hammer; bad for the hammer, bad for your house, and there are so many ants that who the hell cares if it's bad for the ants?
Chief,
Well put. However, throwing the fucker out the window would go a long way towards a deeper understanding of who we MIGHT be as humans in the eyes of the rest of the Mid-East and the world.
Uh huh.
Guess i remember the USS Liberty and Israeli and American cocksuckers who...well, that's historical record.
Wm Ranger Hazen: Lisa's nice,sweet, feminine and probably correct in trying to be peaceful and compassionate and kind and all the rest toward keeping you in the fold.
Free speech..yessir...and inclusion,too.
You claiming some bona fides I have no gripe with, but for god-dess sake man, get thy head out of thy ass and take a long , hard, dry look a the reality of the sitch: AIn't no way the USSA gonna make a dime's worth of difference gettin/preventing/avoiding the uglys from jumping our sorry asses with us behaving as we do in their back yard...fo-evah and a day.
Hell bro, we making enemies as fast as we're able in overtime.That keeps the war machine hummin', dontca think?
Well, you might not:"Who am I telling you?"
Doesn't matter what we think..it's happening as I write this.
I'm not talkin' ideology here nor denying the uglies out there with our name written on the barrels of their weapons. No new news here since Cain bumped off Abel or your mama told your old man:"NO!"
We got some uglies of our own pimping the deal.
"Same As It Ever Was/Same As it Ever Was..This Ain't no party."
Stay in the fray or no, but remember that Denial ain't no river in Africa.
Or not.
jeez'm..
There it is.
Deryle
Shit....C'mon June.
Deryle
Chief,
we must also get intel agencies outta the kill business.
how did the cia become a operational 007 group?
Intel collection, analyze and disseminate is a legit function, but kidnapping,torture,interrogation,assasination et al are NOT within their function.
The potus has zero authority to issue death sentences to cia employees.
When did being a AQ member in yemen become a capital offense?
I think we've gone OT here-the basic essay is to the effect-is Obomba's policy the same as the Commissar order or not?
Are they the same?
The shit in my ice cream says that they are.
What right do we have to be in failed nations killing timentsh46
To all,
i'm not a limp wristed peace creep nor a war geek.
Last nite Lisa and myself watched a documentary on the Bielsky group and they killed and burned collaborators and people who ratted them out to the Nazi's.
In the uw/gw scenario this was a act of survival and as such within the rules of survival. They eliminated direct threats with direct action.
That's what mu SF training was about.
jim
Chief,
actually are we sucking up to Israel or indirectly to SA?
jim
jim: I'm not going to say that there will NEVER be a time when the U.S.'s national interests - OUR interests - wouldn't benefit if some dirtbag developed a sudden case of lead poisoning.
But I'd argue that those cases should be insanely rare and only where there is no real other option.
First, because we aren't God or Socrates. We don't have the ability, let alone the right, to make a truly wise decision about who should live or die. So any killing we do is going to be made with the usual combination of ignorance, fear, half-knowledge, hope, vindictiveness, suspicion, optimism...you know the drill.
Foreign policy, IMO, should be run along the same lines as medicine; first, do no harm. Watch and wait. Be patient, but vigilant. Running around the less-paved parts of the world with the feeling that you have a license to kill and the NEED to use it? Almost a sure-fire prediction that you're going to waste a lot of people you don't need to, or, worse, you shouldn't.
And, second, because it's bad for US.
These killing programs, by their very nature, HAVE to be secret. Any political decision made in secrecy is almost always going to be a bad decision simply because the need to keep the decision-making confined to the same small, self-selected group ensures that very quickly the group will become self-licking; pretty soon they'll be justifying anything they want to because they're all telling each other what a good idea it is.
And so those secret decisions drag the rest of the nation along in unsuspecting ignorance until the day that everything goes to hell; think the end result of the covert diplomacy that exploded in 1914.
But on your topic, I think the difference here is that the "commissar order" was clearly illegal; it called for the murder of helpless prisoners of war.
This situation is much less black-and-white legally. I'd argue that it is more black than white; we're not at war with these gomers - regardless of what the amended AUMF says, and, frankly, that AUMF is a SOB and should be repealed, or we need to openly debate a declaration of war - so this amounts to a private war on individuals. As foreign citizens that makes it problematic - technically, their governments should be standing up to us and demanding that we stop murdering their citizens and either try them in a court or let them alone. Practically, that ain't gonna happen, and some of these guys may very well be as dangerous to public safety as advertised.
My problem isn't so much with the fact that we're doing this as the fact that there's no fucking way to tell if the people we're doing this to are who the federal Murder, Inc. advisory team SAYS that are.
Dear Ann Fucking Landers,
I've got this uncle, his name is Sam, who keeps pissing in the Wheaties of the People Standing in Darkness. Worse, he expects me to pay for both the piss and the Wheaties. What should I do?
Dave in Arizona
Dave,
Tie his dick in a knot when he's around wheaties.
Ann
BTW have you ever heard -DEAR ABBY by John Prine?
Don't forget the institutional degredation that this "kill the bad guy with a drone" mentality breeds.
Large quantities of money are spent in utter secret to permit this activity. This secret money is guaranteed to foster corruption. Futhermore, as it is relatively manpower light, most of the money goes to the favoured corporations rather than on salaries for troops.
Other than launching ICBMs to kill mooks in the "unpaved portions of the world, I can't think of a better way to improve the bottom line. Oh, wait
It isn't just within the CEP that damage is done.
Ranger asked: "what is the reason for launching missiles in places like Yemen?"
I've come to suspect that the only "reason" we do such things is because we have the capability to do such things...so we exercise power because we have power to exercise...every other "explanation" is merely cover to hide the truth. GSJ
"Tie his dick in a knot when he's around wheaties."
That kind of practical, hands-on advice is what keeps me coming back to the Ask Ranger forum.
Jim,
Hit me with a link on the John Prine thing.
Dave
Dave,
You have given me a fabulous idea for an "agony aunt" column -- "agony Ranger?" I'm going to work on this idea.
John Prine's "Dear Abby" -- You Tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2ccC4aULow
"you are what you are and you ain't what you ain't"
GSJ,
You have said the truth so simply.
Much as the 5-year-old son of a friend who was behaving horribly to his mother one day explained to me when I asked him why he was doing it:
"Because I CAN!"
Man, talk about yer self-knowledge!!! There must be something in most people's genome that makes them feel pretty good about effing someone over, sadly.
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