Out of Line?
A belligerent state permits itself every such misdeed,
every such act of violence, as would disgrace the individual
--Sigmund Freud
The present crisis is of an exceptional nature and we
. . .must either pursue the path of constant conflict
and continuous wars, which are the result of our everyday action,
or else see the causes of war and turn our back upon them
--J. Krishnamurti (1948)
We are all in a post-hypnotic trance induced in early infancy
--R.D. Laing
__________
every such act of violence, as would disgrace the individual
--Sigmund Freud
The present crisis is of an exceptional nature and we
. . .must either pursue the path of constant conflict
and continuous wars, which are the result of our everyday action,
or else see the causes of war and turn our back upon them
--J. Krishnamurti (1948)
We are all in a post-hypnotic trance induced in early infancy
--R.D. Laing
__________
Doughty is the former front man of "slacker jazz" band Soul Coughing and the son of a 32-year Army veteran. He was moved to write the song "Ft. Hood" following a visit with veterans at Walter Reed Army Medical Center ("Blanked out eyes and the blanked out sound / See them coming back, motionless, in an airport lounge.")
Doughty said, "I am so sick of people saying they support the veterans, but not the war. That makes no sense" That makes sense.
This is not to detract from the extreme bravery of the men and women serving on the frontlines. These servicemen and women can never be remunerated adequately for the job they do -- GWB is making sure of that.
Rather, this is, at core, a rational statement -- war cannot be conducted without the participation of soldiers. So while it is a radical statement, it is also a fact: if you support soldiers, you support what soldiers do.
The liberal mantra is, "We support the troops, but not the war." But what if something even more radical was felt and understood. What if people said, "We support none of it; not the troops, not the war. Nothing"?
That would be something other than the traditional drone. It would not be obedient; it would be stepping out of line.
Could the discourse change?
Labels: ft. hood. not supporting the troops, michael doughty
posted by Lisa at 10:11 PM
10 Comments:
I don't know, Lisa. I personally believe that most wars have been for the personal gain of a few individuals. Very few are for the betterment of society. I think WWII was for the betterment of society. I think our strike against the Taliban in Afghanistan was for the betterment of society; though we waited to damn long in that case.
Iraq? It was wrong from the start - but now we're there. What do we do? Something different than we're doing, I can tell you that much. So - support the troop AND what they are doing in Iraq? I don't know, my dear. The troops are carrying out orders from idiots. Bush drove out all the career officers; the people who might have known how to wage this war (good or bad - at least let it be done competently). So American soldiers die every day because some politicians thought belief in their narrow ideology was résumé enough to plan and execute a war.
How wrong they were. And now - all that's being done is piling on more of the same. How do you think we should fix this? Do you have any ideas? 'Cause I think we need a whole other strategy. I say ask Norman Schwarzkopf and Wesley Clark. They have more of a clue than Petraeus. Provide adequate armor and supplies. INSTITUTE THE DRAFT. Either that – or bring everyone home, now. Bush is acting like he’s playing “HALO”. Those are real people out there – not animated characters.
Hi Lisa,
The big problem with standing armies is that they tend to get used a bit more than necessary. At what point do the honorable troops become orcs? I much prefer the concept of citizen militias over enlisted soldiers. Matters of defense should be kept local and personal.
I understand where you're coming from, but let me posit this.
I look at it as the Bush administration is not supporting the troops. He is wasting their lives unnecessarily in an illegal war.
Supporting the troops, to me, means making sure they get full and proper health care when they get back from wherever we sent them. Making sure their families get help when things get tight during a deployment. Even buying a drink for a soldier you don't know when you meet him or her in an airport and saying thanks for being there when we need you. (That used to mean more to me than anything else because it was personal.)
I will not support the war or the mission they've been ordered to undertake, but it was never within the purview of the grunts to determine the mission. A soldier can't question every time they are ordered to do something. It's what the senior officer corps is for. It's the generals and admirals who should step up and say when something is ill thought out or downright criminal. They, who went along with the civilians, are who we should not support and should hang along with the civilians when the price is paid for this folly.
TFLS,
Well, the question is, whose society are we talking about bettering in Afghanistan? It is one of the war lies that Afghanistan has anything to do with terrorism. Ranger does not accept the legitimacy of either invasion.
I doubt that Bush drove out all the career officers; if anything, they stick to him like magnets as he is great for their careers. You suck up, you get stars.
Next point, Iraq is not a war, but rather a goat screw trying to secure Baghdad street corners. Wars are fought vs. nations, not neighborhoods.
Yes indeed--bring everybody home, and do it today. There is nothing to be gained by remaining, as there was nothing to be gained by the initial invasion.
If the war was about oil, something's gone horribly wrong. And if it's about democracy, ditto.
Fixer,
We are in total agreement.
Regarding your ideas on the justice to be meted out afterwards -- this in agreement with the precedent set by the Nuremberg Trials. Sadly, this justice is only imposed upon the losers, and it does not seem that any American leaders will swing.
My impression of what 'tfls' was trying to say was that the few general officers who told Bush et al the truth were sidelined/forced to retire and general officers that gave the "correct" answers were promoted.
I enlisted guy/gal goes where they are told, the same as I did. I want to ensure they get adequate health care and their spouses/kids are taken care of and if they make a career of the service their retirement keeps up with inflation (mine sure hasn't) and all that
This "support the troops" mantra has always been a pet peve of mine. I always tell people, of course we support the troops. It's a none issue. Everyone right down through history supported their troops, hell, even those German mom's and dad's supported their SS sons. It's a non issue.
Hum, that brings up a little Dylan
"and the Germans too had God on their side!"
Chief,
i roger that.
TW, there is a now in the germans now too have god on their side. It,s the line right after -six million they fried. jim
tw,
Right, tw. It's a given.
But wouldn't it be revolutionary to say, "NO. No, I don't support the troops b/c I don't support what they are doing. I do not support any aspect of this war."
I am going to add a link to Krishnamurti's thought on war, 1948. They are fresh and new, and almost no one can do what he suggests.
Thanks for the post, Lisa. Nice blog, Ranger. I support the troops when they disobey orders to participate in an illegal, unconstitutional, undeclared war waged on false pretenses.
Fixer says: "I will not support the war or the mission they've been ordered to undertake, but it was never within the purview of the grunts to determine the mission." It is within the purview of the grunts to determine whether their orders are lawful/moral or not. The US insisted on the Nuremberg Tribunal after WWII and Principle IV of the Nuremberg Principles says: "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him."
"What is a Troop?"
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