RANGER AGAINST WAR: Whassup? <

Saturday, March 24, 2012

Whassup?

This year I'm not getting involved in any
complicated issues. I'm just voting my
regular ethnic prejudices


"Cause of Death: Hooked Nose"

--Heinrich Boll short story


I'm not a Roman, mum, I'm a kike,

a yid, a heebie, a hook-nose,

I'm kosher, mum,

I'm a Red Sea pedestrian and proud of it!

--Life of Brian
(1979)


There is nothing more painful to me

at this stage in my life than to walk down the street

and hear footsteps and start thinking

about robbery -- and then look around

and see somebody white and feel relieved

-- Jesse Jackson

____________________


Greetings from the Gunshine State!

What's all this about Trayvon's killing being racially-motivated? We do not have the facts, yet the liberal blogosphere has been crying for vengeance since Day 1. Do you know why? Because a man named "Zimmerman" in a gated community shot a young black man.


Let's go straight to the presumptions:


Black people don't get to live in gated communities. Zimmerman must be a card-carrying member of AIPAC, and since they all hate the poor Palestinians it's just a hop, skip and a jump to hating blacks. That's what stoked the fire before any news beyond name and race of the deceased was known.


None of this is true, of course, but depending on your political skew you rushed to your own judgment.

Do you know how many good liberals will admit that this was their first conclusion? Precisely "zero", because it does not groove with their self image of being for the underdog. They will not admit their presumption of Zimmerman's ethnicity, which is every bit as odious as any other stereotype.

What is fascinating is that the family of the neighborhood watch shooter (Zimmerman) was quick to point out he was himself Hispanic -- a man of color. In other words, he could not have harbored the malevolent intent that surely a white would feel toward a black youth in a gated community. Moreover, we now know Mr. Zimmerman attended Catholic school and was an alter boy. Does this imply the Catholic religion was to blame for leading him astray?


And yet, blacks attend Catholic school, too. We visited Ranger's old neighborhood in Cleveland, and many of the dioceses were almost entirely black. So it can't be his religion that is the problem.


Nor can the problem be that only black people are shot unjustly for being in the wrong neighborhood. As a white person, it would not be wise to walk after dark in certain parts of, say, Southside Chicago. For some reason, such a shooting would not raise our national hackles; he had it coming to him. Because, you know, walking in that neighborhood would simply be folly.

If a white person walked at night in certain neighborhoods he would surely be presumed to be looking to score drugs or a hooker, and we don't have much sympathy for that behavior, being the good moralists we are. Such a murder would be a sad story, but one only read between the lines as it might only appear in the obits. If it had a special edge, like say the victim was feeble minded and had recently escaped his group house, then it might get some ink, just for the oddity of it all. Otherwise, no. Expected.

What's the not-too-veiled subtext with Trayvon's shooting? White people should control themselves better than blacks. If he were walking in Southside, it wouldn't make the news sidebar -- and yet, it would be the SAME event ... to use the liberal's term, "Walking while black"!

I would argue, all people should control themselves better, and nobody should shoot anybody. Fat chance that, right.

My deeper implication is rarely addressed: We are racist in that we EXPECT black people to go for their nine. That that behavior is neither shocking nor rare is what we should be addressing before, during and after the tragedy of Trayvon, because then you would be approaching a real solution rather than a cathartic feel-good chest-beating.

When a black shoots someone it makes metro news, maybe; if it's black-on-black, more likely it never leaves the police blotter. But ZIMMERMAN shooting a black youth? National, baby. There is some deep racism in this country among all races on a slow boil every day.

Geraldo Rivera was right when suggesting death by hoodie. When President Obama said that Trayvon could have been his son, I wonder if he would've allowed his son to walk alone in the wee hours to a convenience store and back in an unfamiliar community. I am not saying that activity is a crime (and we do not know the full details of that engagement) but I am saying if you look like you're in the wrong neighborhood, you will be noticed.
To pretend otherwise is folly.

Is it fair to expect if I walk around in a Slutwalk uniform -- say, bra, panties and jackboots -- and want to enter a workingman's pub at midnight for a brewski, that I not get hassled? If you're high-minded and blissfully unaware of human behavior, you will say, "Of course it is!" No, it is not. That is not the world in which we live.

A parallel example occurred for me when I attended a black university for a semester (Florida A & M). I will relate but one example of the prejudice which I encountered as a white person on that campus.

Walking to my car, I noticed a FAMU patrol car pulled in haphazardly behind my vehicle, blocking its exit, ala Starsky and Hutch. I was then confronted by a black FAMU patrol officer with his 9 mm drawn -- yes! Not pointing at me, but drawn. I asked what was wrong --
NO LIE: He questioned the authenticity of my parking sticker, and accused me of forgery!!!

You must understand that Florida State University and FAMU had full reciprocity on matters such as parking, library privileges, etc. This was so surreal that I smiled and asked, "Are you serious?" Thank god it was daylight, and he did not have an itchy trigger finger. Sullenly, he holstered the gun and said,
"I've got my eye on you." It was pure, unjustifiable harassment.

The terror only hit me as I entered my car and made to drive away, shaking and weak. As an older adult, I am outraged at that inappropriate threat of force. I was a small white woman burdened with an armload of books approaching her 17-year-old Volkswagon. What insane bullying, and if I had known better or had support, I would have brought that matter to my local representatives, at the least. I did not know better, and just wanted to get the hell out of Dodge.


That said, I met some very fine and welcoming people at FAMU, as well. BUT, those introductions were usually facilitated by a black friend;
unaccompanied, I was suspect. I was told by a black male study partner that he wished he could introduce me to his fiance, but that she would be antagonistic to my whiteness. (I later encountered them in a store and he looked away.)

I was enthusiastically asked by members of my African-American Lit class after I'd made a presentation of Zora Neale Hurston's "Their Eyes Were Watching God" -- how I could possibly have understood the trials of a black woman so well, they asked. I quoted Sojourner Truth ("Ain't I a Woman?) And so it goes.


That is the measure of the prejudice in your nation: Black-on-black -- or at least, dark-on-dark crime -- is permitted. It's expected; it is as old as the hills.
All suspect all.

So, what do we call it when blacks murder blacks? We don't seem to call it anything. How about if a black person murders a white -- it does happen, you know? Are those racist occurrences, or simply pathetic and tragic murders?


The liberal pack is calling for everyone's head, but in order for the police to arrest a suspect they must have a court-issued probable cause warrant. Zimmerman is not a flight risk; he had called the police prior to the shooting event. He tried to coordinate with police, and they displayed negligence and a negative attitude by not responding.


This should be a problem of concern: Many police department are suffering budget cuts and a shortage of officers. Maybe several of them are on duty in Afghanistan. There was clearly a problem in the neighborhood.
Zimmerman was following Florida Rules of Engagement as opposed to Afghan rules.

My main point is obvious: We all come with preconceptions and fears, founded or un-, and how to countenance that is our mission. If all followed the rule of law and respected his fellows, and expressed honestly and clearly at the first sign of feeling threatened in the spirit of seeking consensus, we wouldn't have these shootings, would we?

Is this our country as you know it? Is this your house, as you know it?

Per Trayvon, we should suspend judgment until the facts are known.


For now, we can call it, "Death by Hoodie", and should consider all which that entails.

[cross-posted @ BigBrassBlog]

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39 Comments:

Blogger BadTux said...

Uhm, I hate to tell you this, but blacks and Hispanics have a long history of racial animosity towards each other. Blacks call Hispanics "beaners" and harbor animosity over what they believe is an alien invasion that has taken most of the jobs once done by blacks, i.e. they blame Hispanics for high unemployment in the black community, and Hispanics call blacks, well, you know that one (N-word), and consider them to be all lazy shifty worthless criminals. I taught in an inner city school in Houston that was right on the edge of where the two communities met, and it was a constant struggle keeping the Hispanic kids from beating up the black kids and vice-versa, nevermind the racial epiteths.

Racism doesn't stop just because your skin gets a tint of melanin. Sheriff Harry Lee down in Metairie Louisiana was ethnically Chinese but had no problem being Bull Connor Lite when it came to making sure black people from New Orleans didn't cross that bridge to dry land when the levees failed...

- Badtux the Multicultural Penguin

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 3:57:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Nikolay Levin said...

I feel enough facts are already known to form some conclusions.

The 911 call in question clearly shows that Zimmerman was in no immediate danger (and whispered around 2:20 most possibly racist). He CHOSE to pursue and accost Martin. It really shows when the only public photo released of him is a mugshot from the time he resisted arrest and assaulted a police officer why Zimmerman was ever trusted with a concealed gun let alone a community watch in the first place. Even with Florida's lenient Castle Doctrine, this is harassment at best and vigilantism at worst. My Krav Maga instructor knows how to kill people in several different ways with his bare hands and yet makes avoiding bars and sporting events a principle. He knows playing hero can end up being the opposite.

In a way as your story on the Florida campus shows, only PROFESSIONAL peace officers can draw weapons (and effectively) outside of a self-defense situation, have sworn to follow and uphold the law and are prepared as well as trained to deal with violators of said law. In my own humble opinion, strapped constabulary budgets is no excuse for anarchy.

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 4:05:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

BT,

My point exactly.

In an 17 May 04 NAACP speech, Bill Cosby laid out part of the problem. Fr. a Michael Eric Dyson interview w/ Cosby:

Just forget telling your child to join the Peace Corps. It's right around the corner. (laughter) It's standing on the corner. It can't speak English. It doesn't want to learn English. I can't even talk the way these people talk

So that's part of the perception, the attitude on both sides, and the problem. That's what I'm trying to address, and it's a huge problem. Free speech lets you be an NWA or a slutwalker -- now, what is your goal?


Levin,

You think that FAMU officer acted "effectively"?

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 9:27:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

BT,

To continue,

Yes, the Hispanics are fighting for turf (the criminal elements), but like everyone else, they are also competing for jobs. They are the new minority in the U.S., and they have a family cohesion lacking in the black community.

The Hispanics are building our nation, BT, I'm sure you can see this. They have a strong work ethic and do their work well and with a civil attitude. What many people see with the young blacks is a cohort of anger.

I'm not disputing the "justification" of this; merely recognizing it.

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 9:36:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Nikolay Levin said...

No. No. No. I didn't mean that.

There's a difference I think between "Security" at a school and a Sheriff. The latter earned their badge, the former are often detestable deadweight. They're called Rent-A-Cops and with good reason. I saw some the other day detain a young man on campus BECAUSE HE TOOK OFF A SHIRT. For me, if you have to push around college kids to make ends meet, you've failed in your law enforcement career. Indeed, I'm sorry that had happened to you. Its for the best I surmise that this FAMU gentlemen was on a university checking meters than in a city on a beat.

This whole bit though reminds me of the local case of Roderick Scott . Some kids were stealing cigarettes from a unlocked cars outside of Scott's home. Scott's girlfriend decided to call the police (Good Choice) while Scott went OFF his property, armed, to confront and the teenagers (Very Bad Choice). Long story short a teenager moved, a teenager was shot and said teenager was killed. Greece Police charged him for murder and a grand jury put him on trial for manslaughter. As a New Yorker I supported this completely. For me there is no obligation that a neighbor has for defending ANOTHER persons property (even for something as simple and urgent as providing First Aid the law stipulates that you ask first.) I also firmly believe minor non-violent property theft IN A PUBLIC SPACE is a not a cause for deadly force. I believe this DESPITE the fact that Scott was black and the slain teen was white.

This is what angers me most I think. The only reason a comprehensive investigation is not filed is if a death is at a hospice with a physicians signature. In all other jurisdictions I know, criminal investigations regarding death by a firearm is absolutely mandatory. Lets forget the fact that Trayvon Martin technically resided in the community he was shot in or that he was not INVOLVED in a criminal act at the time of Zimmermans call or that he apparently likes to call black teens "coons" to 911 dispatchers. Not charging Zimmerman for manslaughter AT THE LEAST is a outrageous. Second Amendment proponents say "rather be judged by twelve than carrier out by six" because you are charged when you kill someone. Thats the consequence of shooting and killing an human being, especially an unarmed human being. Sanford Police have failed in their duty. I only wonder if this got any less attention would the FBI and the Florida Attorney General make up for it?

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 7:22:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

There is an ANON who's cmt. landed in the mail, but not here. I'll compensate for your filter once.

My cmt. is: Yup, it's an op-ed.

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whassup?":

Sorry Madam, but your analysis is both factually incorrect and biased.

Entering a bar while inappropriately dressed and a young man returning from the convenience store are hardly the same thing. I don't find it "fair to expect" to be murdered for wearing the wrong clothes. But than that's what equivocations are for, right?
Furthermore, you misrepresent the "liberal blogosphere" and ascribe to them all sorts of bigoted notions. A few links or quotations might be in order when painting with such a broad brush.
I won't address each and every fallacy you made in this op-ed(?). Instead I'll mention the most egregious:
- "in order for the police to arrest a suspect they must have a court-issued probable cause warrant". Stalking and killing an unarmed person against the express instructions of 911 operators & recordings of him saying "they always get away" and "coon", perhaps?

- "He tried to coordinate with police, and they displayed negligence and a negative attitude by not responding". No, he didn't coordinate with anyone and cops arrived ASAP. He followed the kid and killed him shortly after ending the 911 call. The 911 recording shows he was following Trayvon Martin and was told not to;

- "There was clearly a problem in the neighborhood." Really? Any evidence? I mean, of problems other than self-appointed vigilantes with a record of violence (including against policemen);

- "Zimmerman was following Florida Rules of Engagement". Even the most lenient interpretation of 'Stand your Ground' laws do not include 'Follow & Shoot';

- "We should suspend judgment until the facts are known". Sounds like calling for a time-out after punching someone in the face but ... WTH, if that's a royal we, WE graciously concur;

- "For now, we can call it, *Death by Hoodie*". Facts qualify it as homicide - probably manslaughter.
Fox News fans can call it what they want, even a wardrobe malfunction.

If you really want to 'get real', you should call it what it is : an instance of Walking while Black.

PS. Slutwalks are about raising awareness re. sexual discrimination, harassment & violence not pushing the fashion envelope.

Hyper

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 8:20:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Thank you for clarifying, Levin.

Agreed, we must have uniformity of enforcement. No one should get away with murder in the U.S. unless they have a lot of money (like O.J. Simpson). Noenetheless, even though you may beat the rap, there should be a charge once evidence is gathered.

Yes, everyone in FL's up in arms now. I still contend the reason is the toothsomeness of the supposed participants: The improbable gung-ho Jewish (not) Zimmerman vs. the innocent young black man. I mean, it's remarkable ONLY in that way compared to the everyday murders that national never picks up on.

Why aren't we beside ourselves with grief when blacks commit murder in a home invasion? Because, we just expect they will do those things. And as an aside, that's largely why non-criminals keep guns and live in secured apartments or communities. Is that thinking bigoted? It is, but what about those presumptions?

So the problem is deep, and it IS one of prejudice and low-expectation, and stereotypes are there for a reason; and it is MOST unfortunate when absolutely fine and good people fall under that rubric due to appearance or name, or religion ...

But we are all hypocrites and bigots and all harbor our own fears, resentments and anger. Oh, we might not take delight in cruelty to the degree of an antisocial personality, but we are all on that spectrum. Even the Dalai Lama, though he may be far on the other end.

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 8:33:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

p.p.s. BT,

I'm going to make an addition to the post reflecting our knowledge that ... blacks hate browns + whites; whites hate blacks + browns; ad infinitum.

It's really just bog simple fear / tribalism / prejudice. Church or none of it has quite helped us evolve our behaviors or perceptions.

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 8:46:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Whassup?":

I just got banned from a liberal blog for stating a perspective similar to yours, Lisa. To be honest there had been previous disagreements between myself and the regulars. Coincidentally, one of those was that if a woman goes out, alone, to a bar in fish nets stockings, spike heals and a leather halter top and gets plastered, flirts with all the men and then gets a ride home with one of the stranger men and gets raped in the process, she kind of was asking for it. Not that any woman wants to be raped or deserves to be (really raped, not role playing stuff), but common sense has to come into play at some point....by the time you're old enough to drink you should know that some men are NOT gentlemen....I digress.

On the whole Trayvon thing, I was called out for stating the facts are unknown at this time and that it is way too early to call this a racially motivated murder. They wanted to cal the whole state of Florida into question for it's racist history with this case being a continuation of it. Apparenetly to some this case is clear cut evidence that Jim Crow is alive and well.

If I had to bet on what really happened? A moron neighborhood watch rambo wannabe that shouldn't be allowed to use a BB gun without adult supervisions, a kid who could have approach said moron and politiely reassured him that he belonged in the neighborhood, explaining why and a police department that is just a typically sloppy lazy police dept.

Something went wrong, though. Rambo got his testosterone up when he saw a hooded black kid. Hooded black kid responded in some mock tough gangster rap kind of way. A fight ensued followed by tragedy and then, again, the typically sloppy police.

That theory is enough to piss of some libs to the point of banning you.

You're not going to ban me are you Lisa? have I crossed the line?

avedis

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 11:49:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

We agree, avedis.

Ah, people love to rush to judgement, y'know. Obama was going to be the best thing since sliced bread, and then he got elected and, well, not so much. I refuse to get all heated before I know the facts, but you're supposition is probably correct.

Travyon had perhaps never met a neighborhood watch guy late at night (?), and figured Z. must've been a "rent-a-cop", someone he could dis with impunity. [NOTE: This is not to excuse shooting.] One or both may have been under the influence.

I won't march in lock-step with the "good liberals", so I'm often outside; I choose to think, instead.

Much more interesting in this matter is the created outrage over topics which in fact remain underground -- issues of race and prejudice which I've mentioned in the piece.

Trayvon's shooting is actually not the issue under his shooting, and we are too cowardly and hypocritical to address that.

Sunday, March 25, 2012 at 11:57:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

p.s. --

You're a contender for Ecuador, so doubly no, you don't get banned ;)

[RAW only banned one TX N.G. member for repeated foul language; in retrospect, I don't think we'd do that again.]

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 12:01:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Lisa,
let's get some perspective here.
In 2000 an election was STOLEN here in Florida disenfranchising millions of blacks, and whites too, and we had less press coverage on that fact than we have on a single wrongful death.
All of this is just chaff on a radar screen of life.
Why is this incident more imp. than was the complete subversion of our democracy?
jim

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 8:55:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

Badtux got here fustest with the mostest, Lisa, but I'll pile on here; it's not just the criminal elements - there's a hell of a deep strain of black-vs-hispanic hate all over the Western Hemisphere. Panama was a real funhouse with the descendents of Caribbean blacks (many of them brought in to work on the Canal construction in the Oughts and Teens) on the Colon side vs. the hispanics on the Panama side...

My take on this was not on whether it was "racist" or anything else about the attitude inside this Zimmerman mook. It was purely functional. The Law is supposed to be the functional symbol of civil authority; we make a huge fetish of the idea that the U.S. is all about "equal justice under law", that we are a nation of laws and not men.

So assume that your A&M situation had gone down like Martin's; the black rent-a-cop chases you down, draws on you, forces you into a fight and then busts a cap in you. Does the cop get - at least - arrested and held for suspicion?

ISTM that he should, just until there's some sort of clarification on how aggro he pushed his "authority" and how unthreatening or otherwise your actions were. The biggest issue here, for me, is that the local policia didn't even appear to look at this one very hard.

So - just as with the seemingly common perception of letting black-on-black crime slide - this makes the victim seem more "worthless" and makes a public mockery of the notion of "equal justice".

And we've been seeing a LOT of this sort of thing lately from the other perspective; wealthy crooks tank the economy, by, among other things, blatant thievery, and walk away whistling.

Some pigs are obviously more equal than others.

So for me this isn't a "racist" issue, per se, but one of civil engagement. If this guy Zimmerman - who seems to have been and acted sketchy enough that he should have been at least suspect at the time - just walks, then we're just another step down the road towards disaggregation. We've gone a little further towards becoming southwest Asia, where "justice" is a zero-sum game, where if you "win" I "lose"...and not an impartial matter of keeping society safer and more civil.

Thoughts?

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 10:22:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

jim: Because a single death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic.

Fucked up, but that's people.

If this at least gets people thinking about whether we're heading towards becoming Yugoslavia, it'll be worth it. That's cold-blooded, but, then, I AM a heartless sunofabitch.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 10:25:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Chief,

We are already disaggregated, and this is quite simply an issue of equal treatment under the law, as you suggest.

However, like most things, there is a welter of issues here, and if we claim to not like what has happened with Trayvon, then we must in good faith address all of those.

Tryavon should become an object lesson, in the way that all previous miscarriages of justice ought to be. Sadly, due to our own refusal to be self-reflexive, we repeat the same mistakes.

I do not at all think this incident indicates "We've gone a little further towards becoming southwest Asia, where "justice" is a zero-sum game, where if you "win" I "lose" ... That attitude's old hat, so to speak, IMHO.

I do think this should be "an impartial matter of keeping society safer and more civil." Hmmm ... "civility" -- is that something you folks out in OR practice?!? While I see the individual practice of this quaint notion, more commonly we are scrappers -- "more for me" -- and that's nothing new. We put Sonitrol and ADT signs in our yards because we presume -- we KNOW -- that someone out there wants to take what we have.

My neighborhood -- a supposedly "good neighborhood" -- has had numerous break ins lately. The economy is a motivator; demographics, another.

So we already have a paranoid, adversarial mindset by virtue of having and needing to secure our stuff. Add into the mix our celebration of a culture of violence with (fill in the blank: violent rap /gangsta "culture"; paranoid programming galore in movie and t.v., etc.) and you get the idea.

The violence is within us, and it's nothing new. Less than a century ago we were riveted by our new Robin Hoods, the Bonnie & Clydes. Before that, Jesse James, et. al. So we are all following template: Are we the Fed or the Outlaw? Each has it's own allure.

What we do not do so well is to look for the good of all, JFK's query, "What together we can do for the freedom of man." That day hasn't come. That's why I mentioned Haidt's book, "Why Won't They Listen?" Everyone's got his vested interest, and everyone's been wronged.

This IS definitely a question of and for civil engagement. I'd love to see it. As it is, I'll probably write another post in the wilderness.

I have also been thinking of convening a discussion locally on the topic, but I predict it would devolve into racial epithets and nothing would be achieved -- oh, and I'd have to secure a police escort for the affair, and I doubt they'd do that for me.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 11:49:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Blackhawk said...

I haven't read a damn thing about this tragic shooting, but I did read bit verbiage from the Presidential bully pulpit, Prez, 'If I had a son it would have looked like Trayvon'.

Does this idiot think before he opens his mouth ? Of all the murders that happened during Obama's watch did he say once say the same thing if the victim was white or hispanic or asian ? color don't match, no gain, no pain.

I live in the Bay State where nearly 3 years ago Obama rushed to judgement without knowing the facts regarding a house break-in of a black Harvard Professor, by the Professor who 'lost' his keys. He broke the window to the front door and the neighbors who heard it called 911. An off duty officer was near the scene and responded. He asked the two men who were already in the house for ID, the professor thought he was above the law and refused to give ID (although he had it). President Obama pounced on this and pronounced the officer guilty of racism. The whole Cambridge police department stood together and said 'NO'. Obama decided to have an Octoberfest at the Whitehouse with the Professor and the officer.

Now three years later the exact knee jerk reaction with the very likely consequences lethal consequences now that the Prison Gang Black Panther Party is involved and offering a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman. Four years ago Obama coined the term "Change". As President your job does not including pre-judging criminal cases or inciting mob violence, intentional or not.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 12:56:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous busana muslim said...

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Monday, March 26, 2012 at 1:25:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

BH,

We're in full agreement.

People are so emotional, and that's the crux of the biscuit. Pro-Travyoners will achieve nothing more than will the pro-gun rights crowd; hypocrisy from all will rule the day. This was not an issue for the president to chime in on, ditto the Prof. Gates brouhaha.

Obama is SO Bush League (FULL pun intended.) Oh, but Gates did get some nice press and writing out of it, no?

Well have more to say on the matter in our next post, from our heavy-hitter, Jim.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 1:48:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Nikolay Levin said...

Establishment Liberal hypocrisy? Free speech for them but not for everybody else? Nothing new. Over at Tiny Revolution, I've lost count how many people say Hullabaloo gave them the boot and Jon Schwartz's blog isn't even that radical. For some reason, I've never heard of conservatives doing this no matter how crazy. That's the rub, avedis hope you don't give the blog author too much thought.

If one were to yell out "racist" for single idiot with a gun. Yes that would be diverting from... a racist JUSTICE SYSTEM that is more often the case than not in America.

If this is where you were going at, of course. Whites are much more likely to do drugs and yet are multiple times less likely to land in jail. Certain commentators like to think we live in a post-racial society, even though we still have a drug policy whose implementer claimed it was "about the blacks".

A NYPD cop killed an unarmed teen in his own house without a warrant. Why didn't this get as much media coverage as Trayvon Martin? Could it be because it would lead to questioning our "betters"?

http://globalgrind.com/node/825662

I don't doubt black-on-black violence is ignored, I fear I don't have the statistics handy but there is plenty of proof a dead black person and a dead white person has a chasm of a response between the two. I'm sure the statistics I have above wouldn't make that a far cry and thats what makes me most concerned about the travesty even when it doesn't make the headline news.

This thread may be drawing to a close but since Lisa mentioned signs the local anarchist hangout I've frequented does not associate with the police at all. Despite being in a tough neighborhood and having been broken into multiple times they have a sign at the door advertising a neighborhood watch against thugs including "uniformed" thugs. "Police watching" as is common in many anarchist circles is just as important as watching their stuff. After being beat up by the latter at a protest their political principles is worth losing a thing or two (they take much of the stuff with them when they leave it).

There is a Left that puts its money where its mouth is. They just don't get the power or attention.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 2:20:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Blackhawk said...

Lisa,
Just because this tragedy is so emotional and racially divisive why in the hell would a standing President say such a stupid thing.

This is outside the Presidential job description. How long would a President last if he allowed the 'Aryan Nation', another racist violent prison gang, to put a $10,000 bounty on a Black, Hispanic, or Asian person suspected of a crime. Hell from the news I read on the Black Panther Party putting up a bounty, sounded like page four news high school football news. Go To the DOJ website and look up prison gangs. Murder for hire.

And you want to associate yourself with this type of rough 'justice'. Lets call it what is, a lynch mob. The last damn thing this country needs

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 2:44:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

ISTM that the real crux of the biscuit here isn't Zimmerman, but the local cops and the DA.

There seems to have been enough questions to have, at the very least, caused the DA to convene a grand jury to inquire into the circumstances. Zimmerman was told by the 911 dispatcher not to pursue. Martin was pursued into some sort of fight, and then killed, while still being unarmed. Prima facie, that sounds suspicious enough to have caused me as the DA to want to know more.

Everything else is, IMO, hot air, of which race (gender, sexual preference, etc) is a wonderful stimulant in this country. So protesting about everyone's comments - from Joe the Plumber to Barak Obama - is like complaining about the tides...entertaining, but not really going to get you anywhere.

But I think there IS some point to the inherent problems of being shot for BWB. Here in Portland our coppers blow brothers away all the time, and there's usually never so much as a grand jury unless the shoot is SO bad that it can't be avoided...

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 3:00:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

Lisa: While we are "disaggregated" and probably always will be, in the sense that we will always choose to socialize with those most like ourselves, I'd argue that there's a difference between that and allowing the legal and "official" conception of different forms of justice for different groups or classes to become accepted truth.

A democracy can usually survive anything - except cynicism. When the majority of the citizenry really believe that there's no such thing as a square deal, then you're well on your way to a war of all against all.

That's my only argument here; this was so sketchy that the decision NOT to at least empanel a grand jury appears to make the statement "Oh, well, it was just a black guy..." Like the cluelessness of the Wall Street types that don't understand why the Occupy movement got started, this has the potential to further divide us. Which is why, for the good of the civic order I'd suggest there should have been more suspicion from the get go...

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 3:12:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Chief,

Needless to say, what makes our nation great is our body of jurisprudence, which presumes equal treatment under law. (Of course, we all know money and influence are mediating influences, but that is a side issue.)

To be the gadfly, you say a "democracy can usually survive anything - except cynicism"; I would say we are already cynical. Our democracy can survive as long as we are not starving, but the level of that survival may suffer.

Per the statement, this event the potential to further divide us I would say resoundingly, "no"; it has only the potential to cause some soul-searching and remotely possible attitudinal changes. We are already riven, hence this event and story.

I am most disheartened by the ingenuity of those who seem outraged. We will be writing further on the matter soon, cutting it to the core.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 5:45:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

N. Lenin,

I don't know who you are, but I'm glad you're here. So you second the close-mindedness of the Left who would dare to silence the dissent which they would claim to vouchsafe? Hypocrisy all 'round.

It is true ... that is why I find the knee-jerk Leftists as unsavoury as the Conservatives. Who else would take the time to write a blog but someone with an axe to grind? The rest are enjoying life.

I can honestly say I feel in this way that this project, RangerAgainstWar, is unique in that it lacks agenda beyond opposition to the Phony War on Terror.

In some ways, I would be classified as conservative; others, quite liberal. On the whole, I feel I balance out to arrive at a true middle way (ditto Jim's views.)

Middle way people don't waste much breath tilting at windmills.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 5:55:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

p.s. to Chief,

I appreciate your desire to keep this to the legality. It is simply not an isolated incident, which is why I wonder at the outrage, and really do stick by my initial assertion that the libs wanted this to be a Jew -- a Zimmmerman -- on a black youth. That would have been just too rich.

Sadly, it's really just another sad story, now. However, Jim has dug out some more very salient aspects which we'll put on soon ... so no, N. Lenin, we hope the thread remains vigorous.

But make no mistake: This story is not about Trayvon, neither the initial attention it drew nor any possible outcomes beyond the fact of his death. If we are brave we will look at the gestalt; otherwise, the police will settle out of court and the family will disappear quietly.

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 6:01:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous William Ranger Hazen said...

Ahhhh Lisa....Thanks for such breathtaking discussion.:) I have oiled my tricycle and my asparagus is fresh

William Ranger Hazen

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 7:03:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This whole matter has gotten out of hand. I'm with chief and his comments concerning Obama's involvement. But not a word (that I'm aware of) condemning the Black Panther's offer on Z's head. More divisiveness and straight from the top.

And now it looks like the cops did a reasonable job investigating, but the prosecuter's office told them there was not enough to make a case. So there was a lot of media BS concerning all of that as well.

Crazy, man. Just plain crazy. It's like a wound that never heals because someone just can't resist every opportunity to pick at the scab. And a lot of the picking is organized.

avedis

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 7:10:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hazen!

You have not fled. very well, you had your chance. No quarter asked no quarter given.

When do we cross side dishes and conclude this matter?

avedis

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 7:14:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Hello to William + avedis,

This story wasn't even going to cross our transom as it's just, sadly, nothing out of the ordinary here in the States; it did, however, and we then had to address it. And of course it's organized, avedis. Everything to keep us up in arms and distracted without ever actually fixing anything.

More honest if not politically correct commentary ahead, just 'cos it's here now.


~~Gentlemen,

The time is not yet. I await in the tower, observing the repartee. It pleaseth me greatly :) When the vacation is awarded, then the tournament commences ...

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 8:49:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

to Chief,

Sorry, I type too fast and too poorly:

"I am most disheartened by the ingenuity of those who seem outraged."

... of course, it should have been, "disingenuity".

Monday, March 26, 2012 at 8:58:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger FDChief said...

Lisa: Sadly, I can understand the "outrage"; in a lot of places, like mine, it's all there is.

We shoot down a couple of black kids a year out here. Sometimes its a gang shooting, other times it's our local coppers - they have a bad habit of thinking "hmmm...black huy, probably a gangsta..." when the typical bad guy around here is more likely to be a hard-core cracker tweaking out of Lents.

So this must seem like a sad old sorry tale to them; racist cracker shoots down unarmed black kid. Can we all agree that that's not exactly a shocking story here in the US?

No, to me what IS a little shocking is the inaction of the local constabulary. Like I said - the circumstances of the shoot are pretty hinky; even by Afghan ROE you'd probably get a CID guy turn up to question you...and in this case, the failure to call for a grand jury seems like an insult - like I said, it's rubbing the faces of black people in the reality that a LOT of white folks seem them as either crooks or professional athletes, and if they're coming out of a 7-Eleven at 2am I'll bet they won't be confused with Tiger Woods.

Oh, well...I just got a comment on my blog explaining why SSG Bales thought he was winning the PWOT when he capped those kiddies and how handing him over to the Hague would have hurt some feelings on the FOB. So I guess we are not doing well passing the Thompson Test this week...

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 2:42:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Blackhawk,
A single death does not make a tragedy in my world.
How can a POTUS bemoan the death of a single blackman by a misapplication of force, and then continue to drop predastor missiles on any dark skin dude who farts al q fragrances.?!
We kill our citizens extra legally, so what's the big deal here?
It's just another senseless act of violence.
jim

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 8:45:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Avedis,
if my country can kill people frivolously that's ok ,with every one to include the NAACP and Supreme Court, but one fuck up uses inappropriate lethal force and we all get our shorts in a wad.
I predict that DOJ will enter the fray and label this a hate crime and claim federal jurisdiction.
It is a election year.
What else has O given the black population a reason to vote for his continued employment as ....
jim

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 8:55:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Chief,
imo fl law ignores fedral guide lines, or what used to be fed guidelines in that deadly force cannot be employed unless life is endangered.
If the law needs changed then this is the crux point.
jim

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 9:12:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Chief,
i'm not sure that mexicans, puerto ricans and cubans share any love for one another.
if they did mexicans would wade the gulf to get to miami.
jim

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 9:17:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jim, I'm with you 100%. All this over one death. Everyone knows Trayvon. Who can can even one of the last dozen or so US troops KIA in the pwot, let alone the uncounted numbers of brown skins? Where are the protests over all of that slaughter? Where is the media coverage?

I'm not even sure the Trayvon shooting was so far removed from being a clean kill, once the confrontation became physical. Seems that Trayvon was assualting and inflicting potentially deadly violence on Z.

Trayvon versus Zimmerman; doofus1 + doofus2 + loaded gun = 1 dead doofus.

Happens every day all over America. How this particular incident became the 1,000 ring circus that it did is a mystery to me.

Seems to me that maybe business had been slow for Al Sharpton inc and they needed to stir up a way to get paid.
avedis

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 10:26:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

meant to say, "...who can even name....."

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 10:27:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Chief,

We don't have all the facts, not by a long chork. It looks like the cops did their bit. Someone may have erred beyond that.

As you wrote recently to the effect: A nation cannot survive lack of faith. By the commentariat shouting for Zimmerman's head, sans facts, we show WE have lost faith in the system.

We should wait for the details b/f passing judgment. I remember other rushes to judgment, like the media pillorying of the Duke lacrosse players on the say-so of a habitual liar. Not a killing, but not the whole truth before a media lynching, either.


avedis,

Who else has use of Sharpton? After the gleaming heyday of the Civil Rights movement, what has anyone done to bring us to personal integration? Can it even be enforced "with all possible speed"?

Meet the future of America: Minorities duking it out in YOUR gated community (not yours, personally.

Who'd of thunk it?

Tuesday, March 27, 2012 at 10:37:00 AM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Avedis,
I don't like writing on this topic but i'm drawn into it by my life.
I'm doing another art today-pls come and read it. I'm calling it-A comparative analysis.
When i think of sharpton the name brawly pops to mind.
I'm also gonna write a piece on the right wing and racism, as soon as i get my thoughts together.
We are a most violent society and then we get upset when it bites us on the ass.
jim

Wednesday, March 28, 2012 at 9:08:00 AM GMT-5  

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