Twit of Twitters
Ranger Neologism of the Day:
Meanderthal (n):
[a] An American tourist wandering abroad
[b] Materialist members of the "Me Generation"
"A Twit of twitters"
--A Miscellany of Modern Words,
Schott's Vocab
______________
Meanderthal (n):
[a] An American tourist wandering abroad
[b] Materialist members of the "Me Generation"
"A Twit of twitters"
--A Miscellany of Modern Words,
Schott's Vocab
______________
[Ranger's on the road for the next couple of weeks, so posts will be brief!]
Ranger disagrees with military analyst Loren Thompson's bleak assessment of former U.S. military performance of duty in today's USAToday:
Compared with troops in draft-era wars, today's all-volunteer force is "more disciplined, more restrained than any other military in the world," Thompson says. "When you consider the stress ... the American military has comported itself in Iraq better than in
Vietnam ,Korea " or the world wars (Ex-Soldier Gets Life for Iraqi Murders).
This statement is totally unfounded. The Army of WWII, Korea and RVN was every bit as disciplined and self-policing as anything we see in today's military forces.
If anything, they are less likely to question "gray area" orders since they have a career to protect. Draft era soldiers were moral by choice, not necessity.
Labels: PFC Steven Green, phony war on terror, PWOT
posted by rangeragainstwar at 8:09 AM
14 Comments:
i, for one, loved me some draftees. they would tell you "no" in a heartbeat. they were insolent, disrespectful, insubordinate, and decidedly unmilitary in their bearing.
they would fight like singed butt demons of hell if you managed to convince them of the sense of an objective.
to convince them it took little more than explaining that the objective was yet another obstacle which stood between them and a ride home, to the world, to their car, to a job where motherfuckers didn't shoot at them, to suzy creemcheese and maybe her twin sister.
draftees didn't fail to take belleau wood. draftees stormed fredericksburg, led by idiot regulars. draftees didn't give up an inch of the chosin without a bloody fight.
draftees took omaha and utah beaches.
give me draftees any fucking day.
Stay safe on have a great time on the road Ranger. Lisa: Thank you for showing up for me even when I wasn't. I'm back now and better than I was. Getting ready for a total knee replacement surgery (my service-connected disability) in a month and trying desperately to get all things physical done before I go under the knife. Hope all is well in your world and thanks again, your support is invaluable.
Actually, I'd question even the professional quality of our "professional" Army.
Show me the enemy we've faced since 1972 that had the quality of the NVA/VC, the PLA of 1950, the Imperial Japanese Army and "Special Naval Landing Forces" (i.e. the imperial marines), or the Deutsches Heer of either the Third Reich or the Hohenzollerns.
Running wild over third-rate enemies like Saddam's "army" or the feared Grenadian People's Army or the Panamanian Defense Force?
Not exactly the Huertgen Fucking Forest.
I would say that, given the relative number of soldier and unit (remember the idiotic overreaction to the Iraqis in Fallujah by my brothers in the 82nd that kicked off the guerilla war?) indiscipline incidents, I';d have to say that overall, our performance since 1991 looks WORSE than any American army since My Lai, and before that you'd have to go back...dunno, maybe to the refugee-shooting deals during the retreat to Pusan.
No better, anyway.
So much for "professionalism"...
Thompson has a typical right-wing agenda. As we all know, worship of the troops (whilst cutting their throats) is ALWAYS part of the agenda.
I agree with FDChief about today's military. Due to stupid politicians, they've found themselves in a woeful situation, a hard slog with no end in sight. However, the fact is that casualties are relatively low (should be none, of course) and the opposition a tad different than what troops faced before.
Would I stay in today? Hell, no. Not because of personal risk, but because of boredom. I'm not suited for this "long war" the politicians love. Vietnam was bad because it dragged on so long, but to me "world-wide Communist conspiracy" always seemed a more worthy adversary than a bunch of rag-tag criminals.
Today's Army is actually evolving into something of a paramilitary force. I think it's a fairly good bet those COIN boys didn't dream they'd end up being a highly paid version of the Carabineri. It's therefore really impossible to compare this generation—which is generally very good—with those from the past, specifically because of the lack of worthy adversaries.
I also agree fervently with MB about draftees. Most of the draftees I was around were older than me; I learned a lot from them. And, surprisingly, the most important was just what MB cites: wondering about orders.
Hi Turtle!
Good to hear from you, and glad you're back. Best of luck in your upcoming surgery and preparation (most important).
You are in my thoughts.
draftees didn't fail to take belleau woodI could be wrong, always, but I don't think the Marine Corps had draftees in WWI. That is where Marines got the moniker "Devil Dogs" from the Germans. Today, Belleau Wood is called Bois de la Brigade de Marine.
Gordon,
There were 2 US Divisions and 1 USMC Bde at this battle. As usual the Marines scarfed up all the glory.
It was usual practice in Corps scenarios to utilize the Marines as a mix with Army units since this stiffened the Marines on the line. Historically the US Army division has/had more assigned organic Div/Corps Arty. Marines have more accurarte and heavier arty when covered by Naval Artillery. This was not the case in BW. Marines are most effective when operating as conceptualized- near a shoreline. The DOD still doesn't really get this planning consideration after 2230 plus years hence their stuck in Afgh..
It was nice meeting up with you and your lovely wife Diane, your area of the country is stunningly beautiful.
Thanks for writing. Since you were a Marine we'll try to keep you straight. And yes, that'll be a task.
jim
MB,
As an Airborne CO CDR my mix was 4 to 1 in favor of the draftees and yes i did love them also. They were flippant BUT always performed. Strangely as a Platroon Leader both in Recon and 4.2 Mortars All my NCO's were RA and most of the troops ER. Both of these Platoons were incredibly proficient., even a young 2 LT couldn't screw them up.
In SF and Ranger units back then the preponderance of EM were RA.
There was a definite flavor to the draftee that would benefit todays DOD. Hell, I'm not sure I would've ever joined ROTC if it weren't for the draft deferment.! My mind is foggy on these little points. My Dad asked me recently - Why did you join the Rangers ? MY ANSWER- because i had to.
Did you notice CDR Robinson's pic on my Mem Day entry? I'll bet you crossed his trail in your day.
I value your membership and affiliation with RAW.
jim
Jim, I was only talking about the actual fight for Belleau Wood itself as referred to in the earlier comment, not the larger battle of which it was a part.
Jim, in the larger context of your post about draftees, the Corps used them in WWII and Vietnam and they did just fine.
In WWI, the 5th and 6th Marines were part of the AEF under Army control, thus proving that Marines can overcome any obstacle.
As far as keeping me straight, others have tried. They do not speak of the result. Heh. Bonne chance, mi Capitan!Our meeting was the highlight of the year so far. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did.
I gotta figure out how to leave quotes in italics on this template so they come out the way I want. Maybe it'll just be quotation marks. OK, but no 'oomph!'
As to instances of Marine draftees telling their superiors to GF, it may have happened but I never heard of it.
The Drill Instructors in my day (muskets and fighting tops) of all volunteers used to tell recruits, "We didn't ask for you to be here!"
The first draftees during Vietnam wised 'em right up as to the fallacy of that!
Gordon,
We have a disconnect here.
All i'm saying is that the draft Armies or fighting man were as disciplined as are the present ALL VOL Army. Saying otherwise is faulty thinking that can't be verified either way. For sure draftees didn't torture as a matter of policy.
Your cmts are really aimed at MB- my point is that draftees were irreverent but still did the job. All they wanted was to be PFC's- proud fucking civilians.
We need a draft .
jim
"We need a draft"
I agree 100%, but I would rather see it in a context of National service with both military and non-military components.
I don't see a disconnect. Draftees won WWII, but they needed a professional cadre to pull it off. Irreverence be damned - they got the job done.
Yes, my BW stuff was directed at MB.
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