RANGER AGAINST WAR: Lie to Me <

Monday, April 06, 2009

Lie to Me


Ask me no questions

and I'll tell you no lies

--Oliver Goldsmith


I believe in only one thing: liberty;

but I do not believe in liberty enough

to want to force it upon anyone

--H. L. Mencken


It is not those who can inflict the most,

but those that can suffer the most who will conquer

--Terence MacSwiney

_________________

The concept of torture being used on a prisoner held by U.S. is so terrible that we collectively want to sideline it, and Ranger is no exception. Only a sicko or a non-professional would even consider using torture on a prisoner held by U.S. authorities, be they CIA, Department of Defense or Department of Justice.

The April 9
New York Review of Books includes extensive excerpts of the previously unavailable International Committee of the Red Cross's 2007 "secret report" stating the Bush administration's treatment of al-Qaeda captives "constituted torture" thereby violating international law (US Torture: Voices from the Black Sites.) [The report was obtained by Mark Danner, author of "Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror" who has finally published its findings in his book.]


ICRC officials were "granted access to the CIA's 'high-value' detainees after they were transferred in 2006 to the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The 14 detainees, who had been kept in isolation in CIA prisons overseas, gave remarkably uniform accounts of abuse that included beatings, sleep deprivation, extreme temperatures and, in some cases, waterboarding, or simulating drowning (Red Cross Described Torture at CIA Jails.)

While the report was shared with the CIA and top White House officials in 2007, the ICRC's guidelines "of neutrality in conflicts" prohibited its distribution. We are confused: Isn't that what the Red Cross does -- revealing instances of torture, in order to bar their continuation?

This strict neutrality is an idea that borders on collusion. It would have allowed the Nazis to continue running death camps in Europe. A moral position is not a violation of strict neutrality in any conflict.

If the ICRC exposes either side for illegal activities, this, too, is a definition of neutrality. One expects a moral position from the ICRC, as it was obvious elements of U.S. leadership had crossed to "the dark side".

"The CIA declined to comment. A U.S. official familiar with the report said, 'It is important to bear in mind that the report lays out claims made by the terrorists themselves.'"

Brilliant. The U.S. labels them "terrorists", holds them in secret prisons sans burden of proof or legal proceedings, ergo, they are unreliable witnesses. Yet. . . one-fourth of the 9-11 Commission Report was extracted from such prisoners in "coerced testimony." Their veracity does not seem to be a problem when the information is being used for the interrogator's benefit.

If you ask the CIA, they'll tell you there was no torture. That is because they are the Good Guys, and besides, we destroyed the tapes that proved otherwise (all hail Rosemary Woods.)

The sad fact of the Phony War on Terror (PWOT ©) is that U.S. agencies just get too cute for their own good. Someday America will be held accountable for these actions; one cannot hide behind words forever.

Words provide concealment, but they provide no useful cover when the steel is flying hot and straight.

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9 Comments:

Blogger The Minstrel Boy said...

more than anything else it proves the old truth that torture serves the torturers and nothing else.

that they have been unable to cite one instance, or one case of the fruit of the dungeon providing one single thing of value speaks volumes.

i hope there was lots of available tissue in the offices where they micromanaged these torture sessions.

things get messy.

Monday, April 6, 2009 at 12:02:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

MB,
What amazes me is that I always meet people that believe that torture is a valid response to Terrorism.
How does one explain that away, especially since many of them were military types.
jim

Monday, April 6, 2009 at 2:29:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous sheerahkahn said...

I think it comes down to less about extracting information about "future" events, and more about...
a) Confession of pass sins
b) punishment

I read the testimony of a cambodian prisoner during the Pol Pot regime, and he said that water boarding wasn't about extracting information. Rather it was about extracting confessions for whatever.
I think that it comes down to this.
I will confess to anything to stop the pain, and that should be the very real concern of anyone wanting information about future attacks.
Hell, I'll make shit up just to satisfy the torturers desire for information, just so he's satisfied with the results.

So, with that, I think we can safely say that any American involved in this episode of torture be made to confess their crime, come face to face with their victims, and account for their actions.

Somehow, I suspect "sorry bout that" will not be sufficient.

But this I do know, and this should be of concern to those who were involved in torturing prisoners.
There is a pay day some day, and despite their efforts to avoid the payout, they will get their just and rightful compensation for the "work" they have yielded with their hands.

Monday, April 6, 2009 at 6:02:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Podunk Paul said...

I was drinking beer and watching "Schindler's List" on Mexican television with the volume turned down low, following it from the Spanish sub-titles. Maybe it was the distance that sub-titles impose or maybe it was the beer. But the Nazis in the movie seemed to morph into modern Americans -- frightened and venal men who use the best available technology to kill and torture "inferior" people.
I was hoping that Obama would turn things around, bring us back to where we used to live. He means well, in my opinion, and has done some good things. But a real change of direction may not be possible. Ruling elites cannot be reformed, only repudiated and discarded. And that would require a national calamity of the sort that overtook Germany and Japan a lifetime ago.

Monday, April 6, 2009 at 10:28:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Serving Patriot said...

Lisa and jim,

All the more reason that the whole sordid story MUST be made public--- and lawbreakers held accountable.

Yeah, I know. A snowball's chance...

Sadly,
SP

Tuesday, April 7, 2009 at 7:43:00 AM GMT-5  
Anonymous Grant L said...

I think that a lot of people support torture for the same reason they support a lot of things. They don't understand the risks or the rewards, and they don't understand the cost. It's basically what happens when you only spend twelve seconds taking in information and developing a set in stone opinion.

Someone wants/"needs" information. Assumption a) is that this other person, who they intend to torture, has that information, and assumption b) is that torture will extract it. In that sort of math problem, where torturing one person will prevent the deaths of thousands, people say "oh yeah torture the guy."

Except the situation isn't quite that clear cut, and it ignores what people have already said, which is that torture is not that great of a way to get information. Nor is it a certainty that people will die. It's even a possibility that resources will act on unreliable information and then even be diverted from where they are needed.

The complexities of reality are scary, so people don't worry about them, they just reduce it into an "us vs. them" situation that can be wrapped up in one hour (plus commercials) like their favorite TV drama.

Tuesday, April 7, 2009 at 1:09:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger Lisa said...

Grant,

Oh boy -- the t.v. dramas. Yeah, that's where lots of people get their inklings of reality today, sadly. Their betters go to FOX, sadly.

We've been getting a lot of bum rushes to judgment lately, to what end, I don't know. Reasoned deliberation seems passe, and emotive hoorah -- "fer us or agin' us" -- is all the rage. "Throwdown," "Let's roll," "Bring it on". . . Doesn't get us very far, though.

Sam Donaldson addressed the issue of the speed-of-light data flow today, and how people do not have time to process all that they are fed. This is an issue for the cognitive scientists; soon, we will probably parse data in a kind of meta-brain way. We have almost reached saturation level for accurate focus now. As such, people seek comfort in Yammering and Tweeting -- specializing in the self, something of which they know (a little, at least.)

But I hear wrestling's very popular today.

Tuesday, April 7, 2009 at 1:27:00 PM GMT-5  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Only a sicko or a non-professional would even consider using torture on a prisoner held by U.S. authorities . . .". Whatever but there a lot of them. I knew of a guy in an aviation medivac unit who so hated the Vietnamese, he would unplug the IV tubes and blow in them to kill them. He "liked to watch them twitch as they died".

He was a nice guy (I met him stateside.) and I always hoped he was trying to impress the troops. Although his being a racial bigot made it hard to ignore.

Wednesday, April 8, 2009 at 6:59:00 PM GMT-5  
Blogger rangeragainstwar said...

Old B,
What you describe is murder and not torture.It's probably bullshit since most people are not stone killers. Medics usually have a different mindset BUT who knows.
In Macvsog I knew people that revelled in killing but at least it was straight up combat.
jim

Thursday, April 9, 2009 at 7:33:00 AM GMT-5  

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