The Watchtower
All I've got is three chords
and a red guitar and the truth
All I've got is a red guitar
and the rest is up to you,
--Along the Watchtower, U2
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that you've done,
If your life was bad to you,
Just think what tomorrow will do
--Don't Stop, Fleetwood Mac
Do or do not. There is no 'try'
--Yoda, Star Wars
________________
and a red guitar and the truth
All I've got is a red guitar
and the rest is up to you,
--Along the Watchtower, U2
Why not think about times to come,
And not about the things that you've done,
If your life was bad to you,
Just think what tomorrow will do
--Don't Stop, Fleetwood Mac
Do or do not. There is no 'try'
--Yoda, Star Wars
________________
As the Wall Street Journal and other conservative outlets assiduously laid the ground for the release of the bad news, in the form of the CIA enhanced interrogation techniques (EIT) logs, President Obama firmly ensconced himself in the fence rider's position.
Yes, we will release the torture memos, but we will not stir up any dust actually letting Congress and the Justice Department do what they should do. Not exactly change you can be proud of. It is like putting perps behind the glass in a police line up, in perpetuity. You may look, but you may not touch.
In a sense, one can understand. Obama is a political animal; you don't make it to the White House lacking that qualification. Why should he expend political capital on an ugly business, when Susan Boyle may yet give us all hope of a better day? He is standing on the watchtower viewing his constituents' response.
What is the meaning of this gesture? It seems movement without progress, a formula which characterizes the entire Phony War on Terror (PWOT ©).
"[T]he administration plans to propose redacting parts of the memos. In addition to the prisoner names, certain operational details of interrogations are expected to stay secret. . ." vWhat could possibly remain secret, and what is the rationale? There is no middle ground.
The President cannot be anti-torture, yet defer prosecution of torture. It is disingenuous.
"White House spokesman Robert Gibbs declined to comment Wednesday on how the administration plans to handle the memos."
The memos are crummy little pieces of paper, with as little value as a GM stock cert or the average 401K. the crux of the biscuit is how to handle the illegal activity authorized by the memos.
In comments redacted from the online version of the article:
This implies the CIA's loyalty must be purchased by the president via judicial compromise. However, the CIA does not work for the president but the taxpayers of America.
A senior administration official said, "[Obama] doesn't want to do anything that seems to be undercutting [the CIA] at the very time he needs them.]" But the U.S. does not need the help of a criminal agency or rogue elements thereof.
What we do need is a purge of the network that produced such criminality. The seine net should include the Departments of Justice and Defense, as well as CIA elements that compromised the legal requirements of a liberal democracy. Democracy and legality are not pick and choose concepts. You are or you aren't.
The big argument from the torturer's side is that "their activities were approved by the Justice Department at the time." Nuremburg, anyone? That precedent negates the faulty argument that allows the administrations and the CIA's sidestepping of legal consequences.
What is at stake are the issues of trust and accountability -- as Paul Krugman wrote yesterday, the soul of the nation has been rent. The taxpaying citizens are realizing that their leaders are a nepotistic mutual support society.
This same behavior has knocked our financial sector to its knees. Our own home-grown pirates hold us as a nation hostage, demanding tribute, exploiting our trust and patriotism.
We are holding a portfolio of toxic goods.
Yes, we will release the torture memos, but we will not stir up any dust actually letting Congress and the Justice Department do what they should do. Not exactly change you can be proud of. It is like putting perps behind the glass in a police line up, in perpetuity. You may look, but you may not touch.
In a sense, one can understand. Obama is a political animal; you don't make it to the White House lacking that qualification. Why should he expend political capital on an ugly business, when Susan Boyle may yet give us all hope of a better day? He is standing on the watchtower viewing his constituents' response.
What is the meaning of this gesture? It seems movement without progress, a formula which characterizes the entire Phony War on Terror (PWOT ©).
"[T]he administration plans to propose redacting parts of the memos. In addition to the prisoner names, certain operational details of interrogations are expected to stay secret. . ." vWhat could possibly remain secret, and what is the rationale? There is no middle ground.
The President cannot be anti-torture, yet defer prosecution of torture. It is disingenuous.
"White House spokesman Robert Gibbs declined to comment Wednesday on how the administration plans to handle the memos."
The memos are crummy little pieces of paper, with as little value as a GM stock cert or the average 401K. the crux of the biscuit is how to handle the illegal activity authorized by the memos.
In comments redacted from the online version of the article:
"[Obama] is wrestling with political pressure to distance himself from now-abandoned Bush administration programs while keeping on his side an agency that is critical in the fight against extremists in Afghanistan and Pakistan (Portions of CIA Memos to be Released)."
This implies the CIA's loyalty must be purchased by the president via judicial compromise. However, the CIA does not work for the president but the taxpayers of America.
A senior administration official said, "[Obama] doesn't want to do anything that seems to be undercutting [the CIA] at the very time he needs them.]" But the U.S. does not need the help of a criminal agency or rogue elements thereof.
What we do need is a purge of the network that produced such criminality. The seine net should include the Departments of Justice and Defense, as well as CIA elements that compromised the legal requirements of a liberal democracy. Democracy and legality are not pick and choose concepts. You are or you aren't.
The big argument from the torturer's side is that "their activities were approved by the Justice Department at the time." Nuremburg, anyone? That precedent negates the faulty argument that allows the administrations and the CIA's sidestepping of legal consequences.
What is at stake are the issues of trust and accountability -- as Paul Krugman wrote yesterday, the soul of the nation has been rent. The taxpaying citizens are realizing that their leaders are a nepotistic mutual support society.
This same behavior has knocked our financial sector to its knees. Our own home-grown pirates hold us as a nation hostage, demanding tribute, exploiting our trust and patriotism.
We are holding a portfolio of toxic goods.
Labels: CIA, department of justice, obama, phony bill of goods, PWOT, torture litigation, torture memo
posted by rangeragainstwar at 9:43 AM
16 Comments:
i think we need to nail some of these guys..... "The military agency that provided advice on harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."
that disgusting Republican adminstration was and is lying through its teeth.....
G.D.,
Yeah, I've been keeping up with the latest. It's pretty horrific, but we knew or suspected a lot of it.
The tune is brilliant, thanks. I'm going to use it again in my personal and public life because it applies to just so many situations. . .
sometimes this reminds me of the early roman empire and its preatorian guards. augustus formed them, they were recruited from the germans. the language barrier, the ferocious reputation of the germans, along with their incorruptability were things that made them perfect for him.
tiberius sowed the seeds of his own destruction when he started appointing roman nobles to command them. macro, then cextus both became powers in their own right. nobody's sure if the preatorians had a hand in caligula's killing of tiberius, but they didn't lift a hand when senators killed him. he needed killing that one. also, while the senators were busy killing caligula the preatorians found his uncle claudius and crowned him on the spot.
having tasted what it meant to be kingmakers they waited for claudius to die (at the hand of nero's mom) and then proceeded to crown and assinate five emperors in quick succession.
it might just be that the intelligence community has taken over the role of kingmakers, or, if not makers, they might have a firm grasp on the breaking.
i cannot fathom in the slightest why obama is so fixated on allowing these bastards to go uninvestigated, much less tried. smiles and handshakes will only go so far in repairing the reputation of the nation. it needs action.
without investigation and prosecution there is no impediment for the next batch of soul less cowards with a sadistic streak, and rest assured, we will, in our wisdom, elect us another bunch of bastards in less than a generation, and it will be all on again like donkey kong.
i wish i could figure out obama's percentage in this. he's defying the clear will of the people to do this.
"i cannot fathom in the slightest why obama is so fixated on allowing these bastards to go uninvestigated, much less tried."Remember the whole business of the illegal NSA wiretaps and the entire dirty business of domestic spying? Ever wonder who they were spying on?
Remember Hoover the Crossdresser and his file of dirty little secrets?
Perhaps the bottom line is that, like the Praetorians, the folks at Langley know too much. They daren't be confronted for fear of revealing the ugly, squalid truth behind all too many of our "leaders".
But...there is also this. The bottom line in D.C. is that the GOP has simply lost its mind. It has nothing left; I think it was over at "Alterdestiny" that I read the comparison between the GOP, 2009, and the "post-junta" parties of Latin America - the GOP now exists only to protect itself and perpetuate its criminal and venal past.
So to prosecute these guys would be to land William and Mary, to jail Louis XVI, to raise the black banner and declare total war on these scum. I don't think the governing classes will risk it. It could very well bring down the charade that remains of our Republic.
Well said sir.
Anyone agreeing to or taking part in any way to torture or assisting with torture should go to jail. That includes politicians - especially politicians, because we put them there to be guardians of our countries not to sully our reputations. Torture strikes at the very heart of what we stand for in the western world.It must never be allowed under any circumstances at all.
I ran a successful prison and the only thing that worked was 'the milk of human kindness'. This is the one thing (perhaps the only thing) that we have that will defeat terror. We do not need to be weak in any way, just decent, human and intelligent.
All,
I have been drinking, which is my right as a human being.
One, I would like to first say that I spent tonight attempting to ignore/defend myself against someone who wanted to simplifly me into a PTSD case who committed unspeakable crimes against the world.
That sucks for me.
Second, I would like to say that the characterization of the military as being one group whoever is wrong. Stop doing that, it cheapens the nonsense and foolishness I went through.
Third, gah, we are in a no-win situation. We can't win. We can't lose. We can't break even. Seems like a fourth solution should be found, no?
Hi Grant,
I am sorry you endured ignorant attacks. Such a person does not understand the futility and stupidity of discharging their petty frustrations onto another individual. Moreover, they are committing abuse when they do so.
Please do not allow yourself to be subjected to such unfeeling abuses. You have earned the right to walk away with held high. Even if you were not a soldier, never enter into a no-win argument. As we say in the South, you're barking up the wrong tree.
A person with a whit of intelligence would realize any organization is composed of discrete individuals. They may share certain qualities, but not all. You and the best of your fellows shared the patriotic sense of duty. You guys were the best.
And you are suffering the most because you are not a zombie. PTSD? Possibly, but that would not be an unheard of response to a realization of being abused and having your life endangered.
As for the options? In life, there is progress, regress, termination, or perhaps the worst, a static, endless occupation, often 2 steps up and then back again. Movement, however insignificant, but not progress.
The project and the soul suffers a slow dissolution thus encaged.
Glen Grant,
It is the worst offense when the protectors of our sacred values sanction torture. "Decent, Human and intelligent" works. On Zubaida, that tactic was used early on by the CIA agents, and it worked. His later torture was for naught.
We still have not heard of the intelligence gotten from KSM, who did not receive Zubaida's earlier treatment. Probably because none was forthcoming. Torture does not work, as the military itself said in its 2002 memo.
MB,
As always, an excellent historical analogy.
Chief,
You extend the questions into the realm of probability -- Langley knows too much, and the charade would come tumbling down.
Ah, it's Sunday morning and the spirit rises: "Joshua fought the battle of Jericho / And the walls came a tumblin' down." Maybe it's time for some walls to come down
grant:
i wish i could offer you better advice and counsel when it comes to dealing with the civilians and remfs who feel duty bound to inform you about how fucked up it is that you were a soldier.
it didn't happen a whole lot to me, (i was wrapped pretty fucking tight and it was visible).
here's a little snippet of me dealing with a commie college professor...
philosophy 101the best advice i can give you is to not forbear to speak your mind. if you rant on them, fucking rant. if they have just made assumptions, shatter the fuck out of them.
give it to 'em straight and fast. it won't do anything for them, but it will work wonders for you.
and, frankly, that's all that fucking matters.
Grant,
You do yourself no favor by drinking- it will kill you as surely as a bullet.
I'll drink MODERATELY but not to excess- it's not the thing to do with your background. Your job is to stay alive and drinking diminishes that goal.
Forget the outside stimulii and concentrate on staying in a calm, undisturbed zone.
jim
MB,
I remember that very fine positing of yours from 2006 (Jim's alternative answer to the cost of a life is the price of a 7.62 round.)
As an aside, more than anything, I am stunned by the fact I read that 3 years ago. I am due for an analysis of how I spend my time, for that time seems to have flown by.
I'm glad to see you posting about this Ranger! As a veteran I feel torture of captured forces to be one of the most insidious crimes there is.
One little pro-Obama thought: The Art of politicis is sometimes about forcing the public to make you do what you want. In one way, its a test of the movement that brought him to power, as are so many of his current opening moves: Either they cry out strongly enough to make it real, or they lack the energy to keep on working after their coital release on election night. Obama is as strong as his party will let him be, and he knows it.
PS: Grant. As a hardcore antifascist european leftie who has communicated with US servicemen for a couple of years now, let me assure you that many of us do not share the views of wichever moron you were talking to. Also please remember that the level of human stupidity is equal in all scenes, faiths and creeds (not to mention workplaces). Take heart, and find the good folks. They often work the soup-kitchens, both from the right and the left.
What I don't understand is why Obama is involved in deciding whether to prosecute.
I further don't understand why people *expect* him to get involved.
Isn't this a matter for the police and the local US attorney to decide?
I think it is a very bad idea for politicians to be deciding who gets criminally charged. It smacks of tyranny. I thought there was a war fought over that very issue.
Exactly, Ael!
What is going on when the president can rein in Congress and the judiciary from doing their jobs? It may be the man in the pulpit's job to preach forgiveness, but it is most certainly not our Chief Executive's job.
Even if we were gonna go all Christian here:
"But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream" (Amos 5:24). Now that Rev Wright is gone, someone needs to remind Obama.
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